Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

[Mort]

There's a lot of folks who do prefer the more traditional episodic storytelling than the longer form serialized storytelling, it is very much why some folks are not digging new-Trek. But this is a shift in TV storytelling at large, it isn't just Star Trek.

While I LOVE ST: Discovery and ST: Picard, I would also love to see a new episodic show with storytelling similar to classic Trek. Perhaps where everything isn't quite reset to base at the end of every single episode and a stronger season arc . . .

What your looking for is The Orville! It may have started as a Trek homage/parody but it has really matured. Sure there's more toilet humor than Trek ever had (It's a Seth McFarlane vehicle after all) but the episodes, particularly the later ones are really solid. I would put up Identity (1 & II, 2nd season) up against any Trek episode for quality.

 

[Rabulias]

Best of TNG is better, overall DS9 is better?

That's a tough question, but IMO TNG has more great individual episodes than DS9, but DS9 had such a great "big story" backdrop that I loved.

 

[Mallus]

Best of TNG is better, overall DS9 is better?

Replace the question mark with a period and you have it right!

 

[Ryujin]

Same writers once TNG folded. Second season of DS9?

 

[Dire Bare]

You're right, it's not the right expression. It's more that old theatrical practice of "putting my own stamp on it." It's both to show ownership and because critics tend to think that if a property doesn't evolve in some way, even something like a Shakespearean play, it's "tired and old."

Certainly, when creating a new show, or when new creatives get involved with an existing show, there is an urge to "make it your own" as you mention. But this is rarely the sole reason why changes are made, although it's certainly part of the calculus.

 

[Dire Bare]

What your looking for is The Orville! It may have started as a Trek homage/parody but it has really matured. Sure there's more toilet humor than Trek ever had (It's a Seth McFarlane vehicle after all) but the episodes, particularly the later ones are really solid. I would put up Identity (1 & II, 2nd season) up against any Trek episode for quality.

The Orville is . . . . okay, I'm enjoying it for the most part. It's certainly McFarlane's love letter to Star Trek, mixed with his personal brand of humor. I find McFarlane funny in small doses, but episode after episode it gets tiring. When I watch individual episodes of Orville or his earlier animated series (Family Guy, etc), I always laugh . . . but I can't watch more than 2 or 3 in a row before getting tired of the humor style.

 

[Mort]

The Orville is . . . . okay, I'm enjoying it for the most part. It's certainly McFarlane's love letter to Star Trek, mixed with his personal brand of humor. I find McFarlane funny in small doses, but episode after episode it gets tiring. When I watch individual episodes of Orville or his earlier animated series (Family Guy, etc), I always laugh . . . but I can't watch more than 2 or 3 in a row before getting tired of the humor style.

That's totally fair.

I just find I like the Orville's attitude that humanity, while it's still the same basically, has mostly evolved into a more optimistic/benevolent society. And while the show has some seriously dark themes - it really evokes the old Star Trek theme of hope and betterment.

I like the new Star Treks (Discovery and Picard) but they're just SO dark. Nearly EVERY character is deeply flawed and wrestling with past/current demons, it's almost always a "who can you trust" situation and the answer is rarely - Starfleet. Just like you have trouble watching more than 3 or so Orville episodes, I find I have to take a long break between episodes of the 2 new series (Them not being immediately bingeable was actually pretty good for me).

 

[Dire Bare]

That's totally fair.

I just find I like the Orville's attitude that humanity, while it's still the same basically, has mostly evolved into a more optimistic/benevolent society. And while the show has some seriously dark themes - it really evokes the old Star Trek theme of hope and betterment.

I like the new Star Treks (Discovery and Picard) but they're just SO dark. Nearly EVERY character is deeply flawed and wrestling with past/current demons, it's almost always a "who can you trust" situation and the answer is rarely - Starfleet. Just like you have trouble watching more than 3 or so Orville episodes, I find I have to take a long break between episodes of the 2 new series (Them not being immediately bingeable was actually pretty good for me).

The idea that Starfleet itself cannot be trusted . . . it's certainly cast into doubt in ST: Picard, but by the end of the 10-episode series, Starfleet steps up and saves the day. The villain of the piece isn't Starfleet, but a conspiracy within Starfleet (the half-Vulcan, half-Romulan sleeper agent in charge of Starfleet Security). And this sort of problem, officials within Starfleet as corrupt, is a long-standing theme that stared with Next Gen! Heck, in Next Gen, every time somebody showed up in an admiral's uniform I got immediately suspicious!

ST: Discovery is similar. Starfleet isn't the problem, but corrupt officials within. Captain Lorca and Section 31. Again, not themes uncommon to earlier Star Trek series and movies.

I think the difference is that in the older series, the corrupt official or Section 31 baddie would show up for one episode and everything goes back to "normal" by episode's end. With the occasional plot point or villain revisited later in the season. In ST: Picard and ST: Discovery, these themes are the main story arc for an entire season.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Fans of a property that has changed hands, to its detriment, do perhaps deserve a little more sympathy than they get in these kinds of discussions.

I don't think anyone isn't sympathetic to the core basics of that complaint. It's IMO, two things that turn the "I don't like the new direction" argument toxic: 1) The idea that it's 100% objective fact that the new direction sucks and anyone who disagrees deserves whatever they get; and 2) That the creator is so loathsome for "ruining" the property that they deserve whatever abuse is thrown at them.

Don't like Last Jedi? That's totally cool with me - it certainly wasn't perfect. Hate me because I liked it? Want (or at least say you want) Rian Johnson to die in a fire? Toxic.

 

[Dire Bare]

I don't think anyone isn't sympathetic to the core basics of that complaint. It's IMO, two things that turn the "I don't like the new direction" argument toxic: 1) The idea that it's 100% objective fact that the new direction sucks and anyone who disagrees deserves whatever they get; and 2) That the creator is so loathsome for "ruining" the property that they deserve whatever abuse is thrown at them.

Don't like Last Jedi? That's totally cool with me - it certainly wasn't perfect. Hate me because I liked it? Want (or at least say you want) Rian Johnson to die in a fire? Toxic.

I don't know. Certainly, the over-reactions you describe are toxic. But, there are certain elements of fandom that don't necessarily attack other fans or creatives involved with a show, but constantly complain and spew negativity, often based on false impressions. I don't know if I'd label that behavior as toxic, but it certainly is tiresome.

If you don't care for something (ST: Picard forex) that's fine. If you share your reasoning why in fan discussions, that's fine. But when you just go on and on and on about how you dislike something at every opportunity . . . ugh, give it a rest! Go watch something you do like!