Star Wars Saga Edition [SECR] Preview #2 is Up

[Plane Sailing]

It is looking very impressive. However, there are two things I want from my Star Wars game: lightsaber duels and starship dogfights. By adopting hit points, it looks like they've fixed the former.

I agree with your desires, but not with your conclusion - I think that lightsabre duels could be fixed by some kind of parrying mechanism, but even using hp rather than wp/vp, it is still likely to be over in just a few rounds unlike the desperate duels we are used to seeing

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

I agree with your desires, but not with your conclusion - I think that lightsabre duels could be fixed by some kind of parrying mechanism, but even using hp rather than wp/vp, it is still likely to be over in just a few rounds unlike the desperate duels we are used to seeing

Having played quite a few lightsaber wielders on both sides of the GM's screen, the problem with lightsaber duels was never just the VP/WP system.

It was also the fact that the damage code of the lightsaber could reach insane amounts, especially once you factored in prestige classes.

My namesake Jedi Guardian from RCR cranks out 5d8 per round (at 12th level), as does the Sith Murder Machine from a game I was recently, and he's only 11th level, and has the capacity to dish out 8d8 per round upon reaching 20th level. A critical hit from either of those guys under the VP/WP system will end a fight instantly.

As for SECR and lightsabers, a common houserule I've seen is to change the lightsaber damage to 3d8 and instead increase the critical threat range. Or make use the lightsaber manuevers from the RotS web enhancement Gary Sarli put together instead of just increased damage.

A parrying mechanic would just slow the game down, since that's one more roll to make each round. I've also found part of the problem is players and GMs alike just reciting what the effects of the roll and damage are, instead of adding flavor text, including attempts to parry or dodge an attack and how the fail/succeed (i.e. opponent hit or missed).

 

[delericho]

A parrying mechanic would just slow the game down, since that's one more roll to make each round. I've also found part of the problem is players and GMs alike just reciting what the effects of the roll and damage are, instead of adding flavor text, including attempts to parry or dodge an attack and how the fail/succeed (i.e. opponent hit or missed).

That's my issue with a simple parrying mechanic, too. I do think there is scope for a really cinematic duelling system, possibly by adapting the stances/manoeuvres from Bo9S. However, fitting such a system into the core rulebook is probably impossible.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A parrying mechanic would just slow the game down, since that's one more roll to make each round.

Thing is, Runequest 2 (my all time favourite game mechanics) had a parrying mechanic that didn't noticeably slow the game down, and dramatically improved the feeling that there was an actual duel going on.

A decent parrying mechanic would do the same here - unfortunately there are lots of ways of doing not-very-good parrying mechanics, and it has been tricky finding one that really works well.

Cheers

 

[Jedi_Solo]

Thing is, Runequest 2 (my all time favourite game mechanics) had a parrying mechanic that didn't noticeably slow the game down, and dramatically improved the feeling that there was an actual duel going on.

What was the basic idea behind how that worked?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I love the new skill system, but I am worried about certain things as skills, namely initiative and use the force.

I am hoping that these skills have special restrictions, like you can't take skill focus with them and so forth. I can't see any jedi character not taking skill focus: use the force. And having a +10 initiative at 1st level virtually guarantees going first. Then again, with the big hitpoints at low levels, maybe going 1st won'[t be as big a deal.

Initiative: Unless a PC or NPC did the same as you. Which is neither forbidden nor unlikely. It just guarantees that you are better at it then most. And personally, I don't think winning initiative is that important that it becomes a must-feature. In Shadowrun, a high initiative was cruicial. In D&D, it's just advantageous.

Skill Focus (The Force) seems a bit like "Natural Spell" for Druids. It's basically a class feature that has an additional cost attached to it. If they were clever, they integrated this and made Skill Focus (The Force) a Jedi Bonus Feat (either selectable or automatic).

If these things are so obvious to do, the system will most likely account for it. (The really cool Force power stuff will usually fail without the skill focus feat, as an example, so it's expected that you take the feat. The "nice-to-have" things will probably work okay without the feat.)

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Skill Focus (The Force) seems a bit like "Natural Spell" for Druids. It's basically a class feature that has an additional cost attached to it. If they were clever, they integrated this and made Skill Focus (The Force) a Jedi Bonus Feat (either selectable or automatic).

If these things are so obvious to do, the system will most likely account for it. (The really cool Force power stuff will usually fail without the skill focus feat, as an example, so it's expected that you take the feat. The "nice-to-have" things will probably work okay without the feat.)

Much like how the RCR Force-using classes would give you the Alter, Control and Sense feats as bonus feats at certain levels, but the player was more than welcome to expend one of their character feat slots to pick up those feats even faster?

I could see that, provided the same caveat of "sure you can buy it sooner with a character feat slot, but you won't get anything when you'd normally snag that bonus feat."

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

I do think there is scope for a really cinematic duelling system, possibly by adapting the stances/manoeuvres from Bo9S. However, fitting such a system into the core rulebook is probably impossible.

Given the oft-repeated mantra of "streamlined combat," adding something as complex as Bo9S stuff is at dramatic odds with the SECR "fast combat resolution."

I've seen plenty of optional "dueling" mechanics for both d6 and d20 versions of Star Wars. But part of the problem is that unless everyone is playing Jedi and/or wielding lightsabers, those same rules can make the game very boring for the players not directly involved. Granted, if you've got a player and a GM, both with a flair for descriptions, a knack for the dramatic, and a willingness to be a little loose with the rules where needed, explaining what their respective characters are doing in the duel, then the other players may well be entertained for a short while. Problem is finding both player and GM that fit that criteria. I've only seen it in one gaming group, myself the being the GM and the player being a drama major at college. And even then the players started getting a little antsy after several minutes of this.

 

[Victim]

Skill Focus: initiative is roughly equivalent to Improved Initiative. I don't see a problem there.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Sure, the math's pretty easy.


Climb: Untrained (+0) + STR 16 (+3) + Wookie = +3 (may take 10 when distracted)
Endurance: Trained (+5) + CON 15 (+2) = +7
Perception: Trained (+5) + Wis 13 (+1) = +6
Persuasion: Untrained (+0) + CHA 8 (-1) + Wookie = -1 (may reroll checks to Intimidate)
Pilot: Trained (+5) + DEX 10 (+0) = +5
Stealth: Trained (+5) + DEX 10 (+0) = +5

So he effectively has 4 trained skills. Given that he has an INT of 8, it's likely scouts get 4 trained skills at Level 1 (-1 for INT 8, so he has 3) and that Chalkazza is trained in Perception* due to the acute senses talent. 'Cuz I can't figure out what else it does.

Climb and Persuasion are listed because of the wookie racial benefits to the skills climb and intimidate. Wookies are arboreal creatures with climbing claws so that accounts for the first, and the species fearsome reputation ("let the wookie win") accounts for the second.

Hmmm... well, I can't wait for a multi-classed examples. Without skill ranks, I wonder if multiclassing will be a lot more powerful than before.

* I would expect any scout to be trained in Perception, acute senses talent or no.

Edit: More info

Jensaarai Defender CL 9

Medium human Jedi 5/soldier 3
...
Defenses Ref 25 (flat-footed 23), Fort 22, Will 20
hp 85; Threshold 22
...
Melee lightsaber +13 (2d8+6) or
lightsaber +13 (3d8+6) with Mighty Swing
...
Base Atk +8; Grp +11
...
Force Powers Known (Use the Force +15): battle strike (2), Force slam, surge
Abilities Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 12
Talents Armored Defense, Attune Armor, Block, Deflect, Improved Armored Defense
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Force Sensitivity, Force Training (x2), Mighty Swing, Skill Focus (Use the Force), Weapon Focus (lightsaber), Weapon Proficiency (simple, lightsabers)
Skills Initiative +11, Use the Force +15
Possessions ceremonial armor (+7 armor), lightsaber, comlink, 100 credits

That's not a lot of skills there...