krunchyfrogg
Explorer
Any chance of seeing the original versions of the trilogy without all of the extra crap added in?
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Star Wars trilogy
- Thread starter krunchyfrogg
- Start date
John Crichton
First Post
Yeah. They are available on Laserdisc and VHS. 
But seriously - At moment for DVD, nope. But I think Lucas will come to his senses some day and release the originals sans new effects.
But seriously - At moment for DVD, nope. But I think Lucas will come to his senses some day and release the originals sans new effects.
GreyShadow
Explorer
I'm not so sure that Lucas will release the originals. His estate might in 25 years, but he's probably got a clause in his will to prevent that also.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Its much simpler than most people like to think. It won't make HIM happy. From what I can see, Lucas sees his trilogy as his personal art to share with the world. Now, he may have one a good job with it the first time around, but HE wasn't happy with it. If the ARTIST isn't happy with his art, then something needs to be done.KenM said:
So, he released the SE. He fixed things HE thought should be fixed. Now, he changes them more(though not much) to conform with the whole of his work.
The problem with all of this is simple, too. We, the fans, seem to think that Star Wars is ours. We have every right to because that's how we view most movies...but Lucas feels that Star Wars is HIS. He also has every right to, because he's spent his life working on them(whether you want to admit it or not). He's not doing these changes because he wants money, or because he's out to annoy the fans, or because he's out to ruin your childhood, its because HE wants to be satisfied with his own work. Like it or not, he's NOT going to release the old versions because they aren't the 'right' versions in his mind. Star Wars is just different than most movie franchises in that the creator has a very strong view of how it SHOULD be, and will not stop to change it until it is how it should be. Lucas WILL gladly share his work with the world, but he wants the world to see Star Wars as HE FEELS it was meant to be seen.
Yes, its a selfish view, but most artists can be very selfish with major pieces of work like Star Wars is to Lucas.
The thing is, I don't think GL's an artist. He's a conceptualist who thinks he's an artist. The man has fantastic ideas, can establish great foundations, and has vision. What he's lacking is talent in storytelling, continuity, characterization, themes, consistency, and directing. These are all necessary elements of anyone hoping to be an artist in movie-making and he's sorely lacking in these areas.
Does GL have the right to rerelease these films? Absolutely. The problem is I don't believe that he's really thought about his films and how, from a storytelling perspective, some of the changes are damaging to the whole that he and others (let's not forget that the others are probably reason why TESB is the best of the series to date) have alread completed. Jabba the Hutt and the ice monster of Hoth are two examples of this. Jabba was effective because he hear about him in two movies and can appreciate just how dangerous he is... So much so that he's able to reach into the Rebel Alliance and almost assassinate/capture Solo between ANH and TESB. But never seeing him is important because it builds up his intensity as a great villain that we can't wait to eventually see. Meeting the Jabba in ANH, who is clearly not nearly as sinister as the Jabba in RotJ (because the writers were probably much different by the time we moved from IV to VI), is a let down in anticipation and doesn't convey as powerful a story. The same thing with the ice monster. It was more effective in the original showing because we only capture glimpses of it. The added scenes in TESB do nothing to carry the story forward (this is especially the case of the extended scenes with Vader returning to the Executor towards the end of TESB, which did nothing more than chop up the anxiety and tension of the escape from Cloud City).
Characterization is another area in which Lucas has little talent. His handling of the characters in the prequels clearly reveals this. It's taken strong actors to inject personality into the characters that he "directs," which is why only Kenobi and, at times, Amidala, seem worth watching. The whole "Solo shoots first" is an example of this (although I've heard that some fans are also to blame). That single scene solidifies who and what Solo is: he's a self-centered, out for himself, pirate with a soft spot.
Now, there are plenty of changes that made sense. The entire dogfight at the end of ANH made sense. The revamped scenery for Mos Isely made sense. The revamped scenery for Cloud City made sense. These changes propelled the story and intensified our suspension of disbelief, placing us more firmly in this new galaxy far away. Adding Ian McDiarmid to TESB makes sense for continuity purposes. Hell, redoing the score for ANH to include "The Imperial March" would make sense too for the same reason.
The problem with Lucas is that he doesn't know how to discern the need for a change. He doesn't like it, he changes it without really thinking about how the change affects the overall quality of the film. I agree with him... He shouldn't worry about a bunch of rabid fans who cling hopelessly to some element of their childhoods, unable to understand the need to pursue a vision that tells and shows a better story. Unfortunately, Lucas himself has no idea how to tell a better story because that's not where his talents lie. So, we end up with a mess that neither pleases fans nor makes sense to those more circumspect in nature. It pleases Lucas who changes because he thinks it makes sense when, in the end, he's ending up with an uneven end result.
Does GL have the right to rerelease these films? Absolutely. The problem is I don't believe that he's really thought about his films and how, from a storytelling perspective, some of the changes are damaging to the whole that he and others (let's not forget that the others are probably reason why TESB is the best of the series to date) have alread completed. Jabba the Hutt and the ice monster of Hoth are two examples of this. Jabba was effective because he hear about him in two movies and can appreciate just how dangerous he is... So much so that he's able to reach into the Rebel Alliance and almost assassinate/capture Solo between ANH and TESB. But never seeing him is important because it builds up his intensity as a great villain that we can't wait to eventually see. Meeting the Jabba in ANH, who is clearly not nearly as sinister as the Jabba in RotJ (because the writers were probably much different by the time we moved from IV to VI), is a let down in anticipation and doesn't convey as powerful a story. The same thing with the ice monster. It was more effective in the original showing because we only capture glimpses of it. The added scenes in TESB do nothing to carry the story forward (this is especially the case of the extended scenes with Vader returning to the Executor towards the end of TESB, which did nothing more than chop up the anxiety and tension of the escape from Cloud City).
Characterization is another area in which Lucas has little talent. His handling of the characters in the prequels clearly reveals this. It's taken strong actors to inject personality into the characters that he "directs," which is why only Kenobi and, at times, Amidala, seem worth watching. The whole "Solo shoots first" is an example of this (although I've heard that some fans are also to blame). That single scene solidifies who and what Solo is: he's a self-centered, out for himself, pirate with a soft spot.
Now, there are plenty of changes that made sense. The entire dogfight at the end of ANH made sense. The revamped scenery for Mos Isely made sense. The revamped scenery for Cloud City made sense. These changes propelled the story and intensified our suspension of disbelief, placing us more firmly in this new galaxy far away. Adding Ian McDiarmid to TESB makes sense for continuity purposes. Hell, redoing the score for ANH to include "The Imperial March" would make sense too for the same reason.
The problem with Lucas is that he doesn't know how to discern the need for a change. He doesn't like it, he changes it without really thinking about how the change affects the overall quality of the film. I agree with him... He shouldn't worry about a bunch of rabid fans who cling hopelessly to some element of their childhoods, unable to understand the need to pursue a vision that tells and shows a better story. Unfortunately, Lucas himself has no idea how to tell a better story because that's not where his talents lie. So, we end up with a mess that neither pleases fans nor makes sense to those more circumspect in nature. It pleases Lucas who changes because he thinks it makes sense when, in the end, he's ending up with an uneven end result.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
I can agree with most of that. Heh, at least we know he's human. 
This man who doesn't know how to tell a better story made the chief visual manifestation of the hero's journey of the late 20th century, which renewed Joseph Campbell's belief in the ability of modern people to make art. He achieved this by the 'selfishness', i.e. dedication to your own vision, which is necessary for art to work, and he has not the slightest obligation to pander to people's nostalgia about the films they saw in their youth.
Fans *don't* view most movies as theirs. What certain vocal Star Wars fans think and say about Star Wars is a very rare and specific phenomenon, and they should watch the films again for what they say about possessiveness.
Fans *don't* view most movies as theirs. What certain vocal Star Wars fans think and say about Star Wars is a very rare and specific phenomenon, and they should watch the films again for what they say about possessiveness.
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Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Woah woah woah...so you actually aren't flaming me for all that? My gods, I thought I'd be long dead by now. Its been...hours already and I haven't been assassinated! What's happened to us?!Faraer said:
Kesh
First Post
Pretty much the only really egregious changes are both in the first film: Han steps on Jabba's tail (solved one visual problem, created another); and "Greedo shoots first."
Aside from that, I was satisfied with the changes he made. I do wish he'd at least give us the option of seeing the original versions, though.
Aside from that, I was satisfied with the changes he made. I do wish he'd at least give us the option of seeing the original versions, though.
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