D&D 5E Starter Set: Excerpt 3 (actual)

[Emka]

Or on a fail, the same charter tries again:

"I pick the lock" (roll.)
"You are not successful."
"I try again" (roll).

I never understood this solution. This basically means each and every player can just keep rolling until they hit 20 (wether or not regarded as critical, per DM). Or, don't roll at all and always take 20.
I don't allow retries unless something happnes that dramatically changes the situation. To me, the roll assumes the character is already doing it to the best of their abilities - making the retry moot - and the number that comes up is the cumulative sum of unseen factors, star alignment, and other voodoo of your choice.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I never understood this solution. This basically means each and every player can just keep rolling until they hit 20 (wether or not regarded as critical, per DM). Or, don't roll at all and always take 20.
I don't allow retries unless something happnes that dramatically changes the situation. To me, the roll assumes the character is already doing it to the best of their abilities - making the retry moot - and the number that comes up is the cumulative sum of unseen factors, star alignment, and other voodoo of your choice.

I agree with you! It is, nevertheless, something that I see in play a lot. In this case, the justification is "I invest more time". For me, that is not enough.

 

[Nellisir]

I agree with you! It is, nevertheless, something that I see in play a lot. In this case, the justification is "I invest more time". For me, that is not enough.

I think I've always ruled that you can retry locks after you level up. Until then, nope. And no take 20.

Here's a question: I just checked the rules for taking 20. You can't take 20 "when the skill being attempted carries a penalty for failure". Is a trap on a lock a penalty? What if there's a trap the thief has failed to detect?

Basically, can a character chose to take 20 when it's wrongly assumed there is no penalty?

I've always said Open Locks is generally not available for taking 20 because of the sheer uncertainty- wandering monsters, traps, etc, etc.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Here's a question: I just checked the rules for taking 20. You can't take 20 "when the skill being attempted carries a penalty for failure". Is a trap on a lock a penalty? What if there's a trap the thief has failed to detect?

Basically, can a character chose to take 20 when it's wrongly assumed there is no penalty?

I've always said Open Locks is generally not available for taking 20 because of the sheer uncertainty- wandering monsters, traps, etc, etc.

Read further down:

Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

 

[Remathilis]

I never understood this solution. This basically means each and every player can just keep rolling until they hit 20 (wether or not regarded as critical, per DM). Or, don't roll at all and always take 20.
I don't allow retries unless something happnes that dramatically changes the situation. To me, the roll assumes the character is already doing it to the best of their abilities - making the retry moot - and the number that comes up is the cumulative sum of unseen factors, star alignment, and other voodoo of your choice.

I think I've always ruled that you can retry locks after you level up. Until then, nope. And no take 20.

Here's a question: I just checked the rules for taking 20. You can't take 20 "when the skill being attempted carries a penalty for failure". Is a trap on a lock a penalty? What if there's a trap the thief has failed to detect?

The old AD&D method of lock-picking: if you fail, try again next level. I'm pretty sure we left a few prisoners to die because our thief failed his roll to open the door and then (because we couldn't get in) just moved on to other rooms...

 

[Nellisir]

Read further down:

Yeah, that's basically what I thought. You can keep trying; it just guarantees you trigger any traps.

 

[Emka]

Indeed, a trapped lock or in lesser extent a trap does carry a penalty: failing the check by 5 or more springs the trap!
Ergo, no take 20 for you.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Indeed, a trapped lock or in lesser extent a trap does carry a penalty: failing the check by 5 or more springs the trap!
Ergo, no take 20 for you.

I played it the other way. If you take 20 on a trapped lock, the trap springs.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Emka]

Ooh that's devious.
Might use that once I get a new group together.

 

[Agamon]

What's the point of making a skill check if there's no consequence? If there is indeed a trap on a lock, then yes, the roll is important. But if it's just a locked door and there aren't rushed for any reason, then they can either unlock it or they can't. Making them roll until they finally get it is pointless. Only letting them roll once makes little sense. In that case, the player isn't rolling to see if his PC can open the lock, he's rolling to see how difficult the lock is to open. That's bass ackards, IMO.

The Angry DM has a lot of wisdom concerning this.