D&D (2024) Missing - 2024 Starter Set

[Zaukrie]

"Defeat need not mean death".

If the goblins beat the snot out of the PCs in the first encounter, there's instructions right in the adventure the DM can use - rather than kill the PCs, the goblins leave them unconscious and loot their gear (Stormwrack has similar advice for the first fight as well). Gives the PCs a chance to make some enemies they'll want revenge against, once they find a way to gear back up and hunt the buggers down.

If the DM wants to be hard-core and kill dropped characters, that's their choice, and they can then deal with the consequences it causes at the table.

Personally though, if I'd been playing for the first time for all of 5-15 minutes before I lost my character in a game, I'd probably go find something else to do.

So they have no money and no gear.....

 

[Reynard]

I don't get why people are still so down on Phandelver. Despite that "potential TPK" it was not only the Starter Set during the most intense period of adoption of the hobby ever, it is so beloved an adventure they put out a full length expansion of the thing leading directly in to their 50th anniversary mega module.

Maybe, just maybe, new players don't actually care if D&D is dangerous and want to play the game even if it means sometimes dying.

 

[Zaukrie]

I don't get why people are still so down on Phandelver. Despite that "potential TPK" it was not only the Starter Set during the most intense period of adoption of the hobby ever, it is so beloved an adventure they put out a full length expansion of the thing leading directly in to their 50th anniversary mega module.

Maybe, just maybe, new players don't actually care if D&D is dangerous and want to play the game even if it means sometimes dying.

No one is. Everyone in this thread is calling it the best starter, other than the first scene.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So they have no money and no gear.....

Yup. Might have to be sneaky.

In all seriousness, how softball does it need to be to satisfy you? Failure should IMO always be a possibility, and failure has consequences.

 

[Stormonu]

So they have no money and no gear.....

Yep. A quick lope back to town, a couple fetch quests in return for (inferior but passable) gear/money, maybe a bit of "borrowing" by the rogue, a bit of scrounging and some experience under their belt and the PCs are back in business and can try and hunt the goblins down for some sweet revenge.

Though if the PCs had been defeated when I was running it, probably would have had them been captured (I mean, they already did capture two individuals as it is) allowing for an escape attempt either along the way back to the hideout or as prisoners within the hideout, maybe have the goblins send one individual back to town to gather some kind of ransom to free the others.

Some more work for the DM, but also not grinding things to a complete halt so someone has to come up with Bob II for an ambush rematch.

 

[LordEntrails]

Not in the very first encounter. It's just not fun at all for a new player to die in their first battle.

I missed that it was all about dying in the first encoutner, I thought it was about losing a battle during the campaign.

Do you teach your kids like this? I don't think so.

Well I'm not proposing the absolutism that you would like to attribute to me. But yes, I have taught my kids pretty close to what I'm implying.

First, we are talking about a game, where losing is a good learning tool. It is fiction, death is not real.

So yes, I told my daughter the fireplace was hot. She likes to learn on her own (like when she would climb the counters). She didn't believe me that it was dangerous and hot. She touched the protective glass when we were not looking. Guess what? It was hot. After we put ice on her fingers, we looked at her and told her "We told you it was hot."

Guess what? She learned caution. Not that she learned to always take us at our word, but she learned when someone said things were dangerous, she should consider why the caution, and take appropriate steps as she chose to explore the danger.

I'm quite happy with the adults my children have grown up to be. I wasn't a perfect parent, but I've done better than many.

Yeah, as a teacher, I really hate the "push 'em off the dock so they'll learn to swim!" attitude that folks who don't have a clue about teaching like to throw around.

Unless you are trying to teach kids to be afraid of water. And you. And for some of them to die.

Not what I was advocating. Not at all. But I certainly am not advocating participation trophies either. As you know, games and simulations are a great tool for learning that allow for outcomes that are (mostly) harmless.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It's not like that Encounter is always deadly, either. All you have to do is either win initiative, have the DM roll poorly, and/or otherwise don't be too unlucky.

I've run it four times and I've never killed any PCs.

 

[Lupin]

Last time they updated that was in 2018.l, so I think it missed out on some core book errata. It would seem to me that with Beyojd being available they switched their development of freely available basic rules to the platform...and since they now own Beyond, I expect thst is where the "play free of charge!" rules material will go in the future.

That update was pushed out at the same time a bunch of core book errata was published. I found a video about it from back when Dragon+ was a thing. I just checked my copy of the 2018 Basic Rules PDF, and all the relevant Monster Manual errata and DMG errata were implemented.

But I was curious if the PHB-derived content was missing any changes, and looked into it. The newest PHB errata was published in 2020 (there's a copy on WotC's site dated 2021, but it's identical to the 2020 one). Mercifully, the latest one marks all the newest additions with [New]. Turns out the only errata left unaltered were changes to the text about racial alignments; basically removing any references to now-playable races like Orcs as being inclined toward evil. Whether those changes are a big deal or not to the end-user is gonna vary by player (as with all post-release updates), but the changes seem inconsequential to gameplay itself.

That said, I agree that it's not a great indicator that the Basic Rules will be revised in 2024 when already they've failed to include an update from 3 years ago. Then again, this errata hit during the peak of the "stay at home, play D&D online" days, where WotC was saying stuff like "here are the Essentials Kit and Starter Set rulebook PDFs for free (more colorful, but otherwise downgraded Basic Rules PDFs), and Lost Mine of Phandelver for free on D&D Beyond." But they were also putting the Basic Rules PDF download links front and center then, too, so....I dunno.

Who knows what their motivations (or orders) were that resulted in neglecting it in 2020, but I'm happy to wait and see if it makes a comeback this year or early next year.

 

[Reynard]

Who knows, maybe they are planning a substantial new Starter Set for 2025, perhaps one that reintroduced an old campaign setting or one that ties into a known D&D property like BG3, HAT or whatever the new live action show is supposed to be.

However, if I had to guess I would say any on the shelf introductory product will be significantly less substantial than the first Starter Set. I think the goal will be to drive people to Beyond and even buying the Core Rules in dead tree format will be incidental.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Who knows, maybe they are planning a substantial new Starter Set for 2025, perhaps one that reintroduced an old campaign setting or one that ties into a known D&D property like BG3, HAT or whatever the new live action show is supposed to be.

However, if I had to guess I would say any on the shelf introductory product will be significantly less substantial than the first Starter Set. I think the goal will be to drive people to Beyond and even buying the Core Rules in dead tree format will be incidental.

I think we all know introducing a new campaign setting and supporting it is out of the question for WotC.