Strange New Worlds season 2 - SPOILERS

[Zaukrie]

Those last two episodes were quintessential Trek, even as they were incredibly different from each other.

Could be a very long time before we see the next party of the story, alas.

 

[RangerWickett]

A theory I saw is that, sort of like how the xenomorphs work in Prometheus, the gorn take on traits of whatever host they reproduce in. And so perhaps they were not even really intelligent until some space varying culture landed on their planet.

And perhaps they can only exist by using other intelligent species as a source. If they don't abduct people, then they would have to reproduce with less intelligent organisms, which would basically destroy their culture.

 

[Zaukrie]

A theory I saw is that, sort of like how the xenomorphs work in Prometheus, the gorn take on traits of whatever host they reproduce in. And so perhaps they were not even really intelligent until some space varying culture landed on their planet.

And perhaps they can only exist by using other intelligent species as a source. If they don't abduct people, then they would have to reproduce with less intelligent organisms, which would basically destroy their culture.

Meaning they become more human like all the time.....

I like the gorn as enemies for now. It does raise questions about future Kirk, but I never worry about cannon....

 

[pukunui]

Some will no doubt view this as heresy … however, I would quite like to see a remake of TOS as a continuation of SNW with all the same production values and modern sensibilities (and as much of the same cast as possible).

As an older millennial, I grew up with TNG and the movies. I’ve never been able to get into TOS. It just feels too dated and low budget. I’d love a big budget remake.

 

[Morrus]

Some will no doubt view this as heresy … however, I would quite like to see a remake of TOS as a continuation of SNW with all the same production values and modern sensibilities (and as much of the same cast as possible).

As an older millennial, I grew up with TNG and the movies. I’ve never been able to get into TOS. It just feels too dated and low budget. I’d love a big budget remake.

I wouldn't want to see a remake (I've seen those stories) but there's plenty of room for more adventures of the TOS crew that we never saw.

 

[pukunui]

I wouldn't want to see a remake (I've seen those stories) but there's plenty of room for more adventures of the TOS crew that we never saw.

That would be fine too.

 

[Maxperson]

A theory I saw is that, sort of like how the xenomorphs work in Prometheus, the gorn take on traits of whatever host they reproduce in. And so perhaps they were not even really intelligent until some space varying culture landed on their planet.

And perhaps they can only exist by using other intelligent species as a source. If they don't abduct people, then they would have to reproduce with less intelligent organisms, which would basically destroy their culture.

Interesting. That would mean that it really sucked for Kirk's gorn to have reproduced in a sleestak.

 

[Maxperson]

Some will no doubt view this as heresy … however, I would quite like to see a remake of TOS as a continuation of SNW with all the same production values and modern sensibilities (and as much of the same cast as possible).

Perhaps this also belongs in the Unpopular Opinions thread.

 

[Umbran]

Given that the Gorn are a thing at all, at this point, means that canon isn't an issue to them at all. At this point they're already calling out ship types they encounter and with Kirk spending almost as much time on the ship as Pike (exaggeration for effect) there should be no way that he would be at all surprised after encountering one, in person, in the episode "Arena" of TOS.

I just watched "Arena" to check. And... the damage to continuity isn't that bad, imho.

The Enterprise is sent a message to come to an outpost world, where the crew could be given some shore leave. When they arrive, they find a world that's been decimated by an attack. There are aliens still on the world, and they bombard the away team. The team never sees the aliens.

The crew of the Enterprise in orbit explicitly don't get in range of the Gorn ship for visual contact. What they get off of sensors, they don't recognize. That's entirely fine - between SNW and TOS, the Gorn develop new ships that don't look like their old one on long-range sensors. This is a non-issue.

After Kirk blows up the aliens on the ground, the aliens ship takes off. Questioning a survivor, Kirk discovers that the outpost never sent an invitation. Kirk recognizes that the aliens must have lured them to the planet. He muses on why, and comes to the answer that the Enterprise is the only Federation ship in the area, and this is prelude to invasion!

(In retrospect, Kirk is being dumb here - or, more accurately, the writers are being dumb, because they needed to fabricate a reason for the Enterprise to be here. If the aliens know there's only one ship in the area, there's no need to lure the Enterprise in - an invasion fleet would paste the one ship anyway. We, with SNW, can surmise that the Gorn lure the Enterprise in because they freakin' HATE the Enterprise.)

Kirk gives chase to the alien ship, and eventually both the Enterprise and the aliens are caught by the Metrons, who set up the Arena thing. And this is where the first (and pretty much only) canon violation happens.

The Metrons use the word, "Gorn," and Uhura, Scotty, and Spock, who are on the Bridge at the time with Kirk, do not immediately go, "Oh, crap, Jim, we know these guys, we are in deep kimchee!"

Kirk is then whisked away to fight the Gorn Captain. Kirk has not (so far, iirc) been part of the SNW Gorn episodes, but it is hard to believe that Sam Kirk wouldn't have mentioned them, unless the Gorn become classified. So his ignorance is a bit of an issue. But it doesn't really change the plot of the episode.

As humans we have our own instinctive responses that are so ingrained, that we don't even think about them. Adrenal activity for fight/flight response. A tendency to freeze in place when startled. Examining alien species that have different instinctive responses makes for interesting SciFi storytelling, I think.

Yeah, but "launch an interstellar offensive and notify alien governments to stay the heck out of the way" is not an instinctive response.

I have a current No-Prize explanation for the Gorn behavior, until they give me one. The basic answer is in one term: Life stages.

I surmise that the majority of the Gorn we have seen are young, non- or barely-sentient. It is this stage in which they are extremely competitive, violent, and weirdly, breed. The young stage are the ones who are so strongly bound by instinctual responses.

The Gorn Captain we see in TOS, and maybe the one we saw in the spacesuit, are mature specimens, possibly past breeding age, sentient, and no longer so strongly bound by instinct. These mature specimens are the ones who maintain Gorn culture, build ships, and so on. They are brutal, but can make plans and choose to act to avoid full-scale wars and such.

So to explain the finale - There's a coronal mass ejection where Scotty was. That sends the young Gorn into a frenzy. The mature Gorn say, "Well, our kids are going to consume each other unless we give them a target," so they drop them off on the colony world and let them hash it out. They message the Federation to stay the heck out of the way, because a full-scale conflict isn't something the adults want at this time, and they don't want the Federation to figure out their behavioral patterns like this, lest it be exploited.

At the colony, we see a couple of young Gorn choose to not attack humans. This one has already fed and bred and matured to the point where it isn't entirely driven by instinct. It is on its way to becoming a mature, sentient individual. I don't know any other reason for that scene except to telegraph that there are changes as Gorn mature.

 

[Umbran]

A theory I saw is that, sort of like how the xenomorphs work in Prometheus, the gorn take on traits of whatever host they reproduce in. And so perhaps they were not even really intelligent until some space varying culture landed on their planet.

And perhaps they can only exist by using other intelligent species as a source. If they don't abduct people, then they would have to reproduce with less intelligent organisms, which would basically destroy their culture.

Hr. That's an interesting thought.

We know that, by the time of the TOS movies, we have Gorn in the background of Federation Council scenes, which is weird if the Gorn are still eating sentients to breed. We can guess that, post-Arena, the Gorn can (perhaps with Federation help) figure out how to get appropriate DNA/whatever into the young so they develop into intelligence while eating Gorn-cattle, or something.

"All-New, All-Improved Gorn-Cow-Chow! Now with Vulcan DNA for clear mentation on maturation!!"

Huh. We might even say that the spacesuited Gorn we have seen was hatched in some unknown species, while the Gorn Captain from Arena might have hatched in humans (or other Federation humanoids) during this period...