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Summon Monster... check it out
- Thread starter AirElemental
- Start date
Kae'Yoss
First Post
To get back to on-topic (not that I dislike going off-topic. Quite to the contrary: I'm infamous for it on some forums 
):
The way I see it, the tactic could work by the rules (though I'm not exactly sure whether you have to grab or merely touch an object to steal it: the rules don't exactly state it, but I would rulezero that you have to touch them, just as you must touch a enemy for a touch attack and that harm spell won't go off if the enemy monk punches you in the face). It is also perfectly clear that this is pure munchninism, an attempt to cast a 4th-level spell (the summon monster spell) and get the use of a 7th level spell (teleport without error) for your personal use (since the teleport without error is merely intented as a mode of movement for the archon, not for transport means). Also, there are some things to consider:
All-in-all, it could work by the rules, but every decent DM will surely screw you somehow if you use it.
):The way I see it, the tactic could work by the rules (though I'm not exactly sure whether you have to grab or merely touch an object to steal it: the rules don't exactly state it, but I would rulezero that you have to touch them, just as you must touch a enemy for a touch attack and that harm spell won't go off if the enemy monk punches you in the face). It is also perfectly clear that this is pure munchninism, an attempt to cast a 4th-level spell (the summon monster spell) and get the use of a 7th level spell (teleport without error) for your personal use (since the teleport without error is merely intented as a mode of movement for the archon, not for transport means). Also, there are some things to consider:
- The holder of the item gets a saving throw (and if the item is intelligent and has better saves, you use this!). So it's not foolproof.
- AFAIK, you want to use that with an evil caster and steal from good people. So you must force the archon to do something against it's persuasion (indeed, since archons are lawful good, it will steal only reluctantly anyway!). The lantern archon will try very hard to misinterprete what you order him to do, and the DM might require a wisdom or intelligence check to see if your character can circumvent any possibility of misinterpretation (remember that the mental ability scores of your character are not only for determining how much spells he can cast: a char with low INT shouldn't be able to solve really complicated problems, even if the person playing the char is a real genious)
- If you repeatedly force celestials to do nasty things, you'll anger some high ones eventually (and they're easy to provoke). So no wonder if you have a visit by a planetar or solar that tells you "If I ever hear again of an archon that you forced to steal, I'll visit you again. And that time, I won't ask you not to make it again. I'll ensure you'll never do it again, by making sure you'll never do anything again here on the prime!"
- One Lantern archon alone won't have much chance to grab that sword/armor (especially if the owner is not alone), so you have to summon a lot of them, or you must protect them with additional spells. With the effort you put in that, there certainly are more effective and/or easier methods to get that item that are no munchkinism (like making yourself invisible, get there, haste yourself, use telepathy to steal the item, and teleport away. Or just hire some thugs to make the job).
All-in-all, it could work by the rules, but every decent DM will surely screw you somehow if you use it.
Since summoned creatures can refuse to use certain spells or abilities if they cost XP (See the PHB, page 157, summoning, last sentence[/b]), it is clear that the Summon spell does not give you total control over them.
If they can refuse to use some spells or abilities on the grounds that it costs them, as a DM I would rule they can also refuse to use spells or abilities for activities that are opposed to their alignment, something that would be much more important than XP for an archon.
If they can refuse to use some spells or abilities on the grounds that it costs them, as a DM I would rule they can also refuse to use spells or abilities for activities that are opposed to their alignment, something that would be much more important than XP for an archon.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Caliban said:
I woudln't. I like having my evil villans summon good creatures to fight the party and do other evil deeds, it really seems to cheeze off the paladin.
Shard O'Glase said:
*shrug* That's your call.
It seems to be something done merely to annoy a player, which is something that generally doesn't promote a fun playing experience.
I take my DM'ing duties a little more seriously. And there should be a reason why evil villains generally summone evil monsters and good spellcasters generally summon good monsters: summoned creatures who are of a diametrically opposed alignment are very untrustworthy and hard to controll.
James McMurray
First Post
Wht wouldn't an evil wizard want to upset his paladin enemy? When people are angry, they mke mistakes. When people make mistakes, you can usually take advantage of them. My NPCs (the smart ones) do whatever they can to anger the party into rash decisions...
