Summon Nature's Ally vs. Summon Monster

[Tyrion]

Whoa...it looks like D&D 3.5 made druids' Summon Nature's Ally spells a great deal more powerful than the standard Summon Monsters. Example: SNA II vs. SM III--both spells can summon a black bear, but the wizard one is a spell level higher. This same pattern seems to hold throughout most levels.

Druids can now also spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally spells. I'm guessing the spell will see a lot more use now.

Opinions?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As I understand it:

The druid uses SNAII to summon a black bear.

The wizzie uses SMIII to summon a celestial black bear.

There is a difference.

 

[Pbartender]

As I understand it:

The druid uses SNAII to summon a black bear.

The wizzie uses SMIII to summon a celestial black bear.

There is a difference.

Exactly.

Summon Monster... "This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane)."

Summon Nature's Ally... "This spell summons a natural creature."

Any Animal summoned by a Summon Monster spell must be Celestial or Fiendish, etc.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Any Animal summoned by a Summon Monster spell must be Celestial or Fiendish, etc.

With corresponding extra abilities. This is a good change IMO, SNA was pretty much the poor man's SM in 3.0.

Of course, I won't be memorizing Neutralize Poison anytime soon, not so long as I've got fourth level spells that can call me a Unicorn with all it's spell casting goodness.

 

[James McMurray]

Why not? If you're a druid you can now Spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally spells.

 

[Waldo]

Why not? If you're a druid you can now Spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally spells.

For exactly that reason. Why would he memorize a spell that he can duplicate with a spontaneous spell? He limits himself by memorizing Neutralize Poison instead of another 4th level spell that he can't duplicate with SNA IV.

Of course, a LN, or NE druid can't summon his happy Unicorn

edit: Of course. Neutralize poison is a 3rd level druid spell, so this logic isn't completely valid. Oh well.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Of course. Neutralize poison is a 3rd level druid spell, so this logic isn't completely valid. Oh well.

When the druid anticipates that he'll need to cast Neutralize Poison, (such as entering into the lair of Shelob the Spider,) then actually memorizing Neutral Poision is the best option, because you expect to use it, and the spell is one level lower than the necessary Summon Nature's Ally spell.

However, in situations where you don't expect to need Neutralize Poison, it's more advantageous not to memorize it. You probably won't need it, so you can fill that 3rd-level slot with something more useful. And if, by chance, you do wind up needing it, you can spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally IV and gain access to the spell. Sure, that's one spell level higher than Neutralize Poison, but because of the rarity of needing Neutralize Poison, you'll still make out in the end.

 

[Waldo]

Agreed. It was just easier to not type that much.

Thankfully, someone is always willing.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Agreed. It was just easier to not type that much.

Thankfully, someone is always willing.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Druid vs Wizard.... FIGHT!


Druid summons black bear, "Muhahah! feel the might of nature!"

Wizard summons celestial black bear, "Nature is nothing, the bear from another plane wins all!"

Druid casts animal growth, "Say hello to my little friend!"

Wizard cast enlar- hmmm... wizard curses WOTC as his bear gets torn to shreads.