SW SAGA EDITION: Preview 7

[drothgery]

It was originally scheduled for release today, but I heard it has been postponed till June 5th?

On the WotC boards, they've said this was an 'unspecified production problem' on the part of the printer. Since it wasn't WotC or LucasFilm that caused it, they can't give more details.

 

[Victim]

Tumble makes it easy for many characters to move around the battlefield. This mechanic is good, since it makes using mobility and positioning feasible in combat. In DnD, not full attacking is often enough of a penalty by itself. And in Saga, with no full attack analogue, people have to be able to use their now freed up move actions without screwing themselves.

And really, being able to move around trivially still doesn't help too much if you don't have the other skills to things after arriving.

 

[Sir Brennen]

And really, being able to move around trivially still doesn't help too much if you don't have the other skills to things after arriving.

It automatically negates AoO's once you've achieved a certain mastery in it, which is the major reason for taking it, and a pretty big deal.

Frankly, I always wondered why such cinematic uses of acrobatics were just a function of the skill, and not a feat with skill ranks as a prereq.

I'll wait and see the SE rules before I decide to tweak, but another suggestion, to address Stalker0's argument, is perhaps to give the attacker a penalty to his AoO for every point by which the Tumbler beats the DC. I also disagree with the BAB argument - BAB also represents training in a "skill" just as much as Tumble ranks do... it's just that they're automaticly gained without investing points. And some classes have a better BAB because they train more.

 

[jasin]

Then why is it that pretty much every rogue/scout/monk/mobility-based fighter in D&D has skill ranks in the skill, if it's such a huge investment for such marginal payback? In fact I'd go so far as to say that in most D&D games I've played/run, it's up there in the top 5, if not top 2-3 most taken skills... and why is it that not a single one of those characters bothers to invest more ranks than it takes to get a +14 modifier?

Because they thought they'd never need to tumble more than half their speed, tumble past more than one opponent, or tumble over rubble, cavern floors, undergrowth, slopes...??

Not that this is in any way a safe assumption.

 

[gribble]

The full round action definitely still exists in Saga, as Preview 7 has proved. When Luke used Double Attack (attack twice at BAB –5) he could do nothing else that turn.

Has it been confirmed that this was a "full round action"? I had assumed it was like using Mighty Swing - 2 swift actions, plus a standard action to attack.

Which effectively is the same thing, but I don't think I've actually seen any reference to "full round actions" in SWSE yet.

 

[gribble]

Well, I can see where people are coming from, but I still don't like the static DCs. It just seems illogical to me.

I'll wait and see what the full rules are like, but assuming it's a static DC like D&D, I'll probably houserule it.

On some specific points:

Or want to tumble through someone and need a 25 DC. Chances for failure exist.

One of the developers (Rodney?) said that in SWSE it's DC 15 to tumble *through* an opponents square as well.

Lets say you have that climber with his +14 ranks...but you as the dm made all the walls require DC 25 climb checks...wouldn't the player have a right to be mad?

Thats quite different from what I said. Turning your question around, does the player a right to assume that his +14 in climb will let him climb *every* wall he ever encounters, and a right to get mad when he can't automatically climb a 20ft stainless steel wall without any handholds? No, any reasonable players will assume that some walls will be more difficult to climb than others - all I'm asking is for tumble to work the same way as other skills like climb, jump, survival (used for tracking), etc - i.e.: to take into account that not all opponents are equally easy to tumble around.

In most games, the party isn't going to take on 1st level guys in most fights when they are 10th level.

Again, I never said anything about 1st level opponents. A characters non-heroic levels don't add to reflex (or any other) defence. So the 10th level non-heroic opponents will still have reflex defences in the 10-15 range. Rodney has said that the rules assume the "average" combat in SWSE is against a group of non-heroic mooks, possibly along with one or two heroic classed characters.
Turning things on their head again, shouldn't the 10th level PCs have a right to feel mad when the 1st level NPC characters are tumbling around them with impunity?

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Has it been confirmed that this was a "full round action"? I had assumed it was like using Mighty Swing - 2 swift actions, plus a standard action to attack.

Which effectively is the same thing, but I don't think I've actually seen any reference to "full round actions" in SWSE yet.

I believe in the fight description at one point it states that Luke spends a full round using Double Attack. It hasn't been specified if it's two swift actions and a standard like Mighty Swing, or if it's a move action and a standard action.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Has it been confirmed that this was a "full round action"? I had assumed it was like using Mighty Swing - 2 swift actions, plus a standard action to attack.

Which effectively is the same thing, but I don't think I've actually seen any reference to "full round actions" in SWSE yet.

I'm pretty sure the Full Round Action still exists – check out these two quotes, the first one from Preview VI (droids) and the second from Preview VII (Sarlacc):


"NEW EQUIPMENT: OOGLITH MASQUER
Cost n/a; Availability illegal, rare
An ooglith masquer grants a Yuuzhan Vong a +5 equipment bonus on Deception checks when disguising himself as a Human. Putting on or removing an ooglith masquer requires a full-round action and moves the wearer –3 steps on the condition track. (These steps may be recovered normally.)"


"Luke chooses to take a full round to use the Double Attack feat…"

 

[ValhallaGH]

The functional difference between two swift actions and a standard action or a full round action is pretty small, especially when it all happens in the same round. As such, I find it very likely that the author, out of good old d20 habit, wrote full round action whether or not it was accurate.

All "certainties" should wait until you're holding the book and can cite page references. Until then you're speculating, to various degrees of wildness.

I won't be a bit surprised to open the book and find the following: "Actions per turn, Swift, Move, Standard." "As a full-round action...." Why? Because these people have been doing d20 for about a decade. Full round actions are so well entrenched in their brains that they'll be referenced for years, even if they never play systems that have such an action ever again.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The functional difference between two swift actions and a standard action or a full round action is pretty small, especially when it all happens in the same round. As such, I find it very likely that the author, out of good old d20 habit, wrote full round action whether or not it was accurate.

One difference that we know about regarding swift actions is that they can be spread over multiple rounds - like recovering by taking 3 swift actions for instance.

It will be interesting to see whether this is generally true (e.g. can you wind up for a mighty swing/start taking aim/etc in one round and then take the shot in the following round?)

Cheers