D&D 5E Swimming in Armor

[akr71]

Short answer: There are none.

Long answer: I had stealth-disadvantage armor grant the same penalty to athletics for long-periods of swimming.

Your 'long answer' is pretty short and sweet. It meshes well with the general 5e feel - no need to make it any more complicated than that IMO.

 

[LordEntrails]

I don't agree with that rule.

I think I wasn't expressing the point I attempted to make in the other post well enough so I'll restate it here.

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Stealth is a really subtle skill. It means not making a little noise that alerts an active listener.

Swimming requires strong, gross body movement.

Does disadvantage to Stealth translate to disadvantage checks for climbing? Running? Acrobatics? No. If it doesn't, then it shouldn't reply to Swimming either. Once you look at the relative weights of different armors, it also applies so unevenly that it makes less sense to me - padded armor should not be worse than chain mail or a steel breast plate.

Although seemingly elegant, using armor's Stealth disadvantage to translate to Swimming disadvantage is way too punishing.

I'm not sure of how to rule on this yet, but I'm letting it sit for a while and talking it over with my co-DMs.

The thought here is not that stealth is equivalent to swimming in any manner. The though is that if you look at the armor table, the heavy armor (with the exception of padded) are the ones that give stealth disadv. Their was talk that padded would be an issue because it absorbs water and becomes heavy and should give disadv. Since the Stealth disadv matches pretty well with those that it seems would be the worst of the armors for swimming, just use it.

There's an excellent free supplements that covers this full, it's called "Water and Whirlpools". I believe it's the successor of an older supplement called "Fire and Brimstone".

I can't find any type of reference for this. Can you link?

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The 5e rules that I'm aware of largely ignore the dangers of water.
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I agree, this is what I'm trying to find something to supplement, while keeping the heroic feel of 5E.

I agree swimming in heavy armor is all but impossible.

I disagree this means automatic failure. After all, this is D&D.

That's why I think disadv. Keeps it possible, but adds a danger.

The proper way of expressing "you can't do that" is to set a high Swim DC (20 or even 25) and watch the plate fighter swim just fine.

Disagree. To me, the DC is regardless of who is attempting to make the check. ADV/DIS modifiers is for situations based on who. i.e swimming in a pool is DC6 (or whatever value) regardless of who is trying. Modifiers and or adv/dis for the person.

Besides, this still is D&D. Even the fighter that skips the swim attempt can simply walk across the river (on the bottom).

Remember, this is D&D. You can hold your breath for very long durations with no significant consequences, even while you're heavily exerting yourself. A 18 Con Fighter can hold his breath for 44 rounds.

Which is only 4.4 minutes, which is not much beyond what a trained human can do. I'm ok with that time.

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You can easily walk across the bottom of a mile wide river this way, all within the bounds of the rules as written.

Of course, a DM can simply say "you drown" or rein in this approach to some degree, but let's at least acknowledge that applying common sense and real-life physics doesn't make much sense in a game like D&D.

I'm not trying to worry too much about physics, but I think common sense is a good thing to apply. Still want to keep the heroic feel, but water, imo, should have real consequences. Maybe it just slows you down, maybe it means you have to walk to the shore to get a breath, but it should mean something, otherwise you start getting to every combat is just a game of resource attrition.

 

[Zero Cochrane]

Simple rule for swimming in armor

Here is what I came up with, based on previous editions, and consistent with the styles of 5th edition rules. • While swimming, each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot, unless a creature has a swimming speed. To swim or stay afloat, you might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check. If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater. Calm water is DC 10, Rough water is DC 15, Stormy water is DC 20. Apply an encumbrance penalty to the Strength (Athletics) check: -1 per 10 lbs for creatures up to Medium size, -1 per 20 lbs for Large, -1 per 40 lbs for Huge, -1 per 80 lbs for Gargantuan creatures. In addition, I slightly modified the rules for drowning to make them seem more "realistic." • Asphyxiation — When a creature runs out of breath, it gains one temporary level of exhaustion per round, then drops to 0 hit points and is dying when it reaches level 6. If revived, the creature recovers from all levels of exhaustion that were gained from asphyxiation.

 

[Uller]

I'm not trying to worry too much about physics, but I think common sense is a good thing to apply. Still want to keep the heroic feel, but water, imo, should have real consequences. Maybe it just slows you down, maybe it means you have to walk to the shore to get a breath, but it should mean something, otherwise you start getting to every combat is just a game of resource attrition.

I think you've got the right idea.

Water should not be hazardous by itself. It adds an aspect of danger. Can't see as well. Can't move as well. Can't fight as well. Characters want to get out of it.
Armor that significantly reduces buoyancy makes it harder and using the stealth disadvantage is the easiest way to go about it. Padded armor? I imagine that to be like swimming in hockey or football gear...probably not much different than swimming in robes or heavy clothes...but I can't recall ever having a PC wear padded armor so...

I think the same disadvantage could apply to any athletics or acrobatics checks where bulky armor might get in the way. Climbing, jumping, doing a bckflip, etc.

Honestly...my players expect that, at least in my table game. When it comes to things like deciding who is going to climb/sneak/swim/jump or whatever, they aren't picking the guy in full plate and heavy shield. They expect him to have a harder time.

 

[Li Shenron]

I can't find any type of reference for this. Can you link?

http://www.scratchfactory.com/Resources/LavaBanners/LavaRules.pdf

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

2) Swimming checks are already strength based. So all else being equal, the guy with the 10 strength and no athletics skill will have a harder time than the guy with 18 strength and/or proficiency in athletics. Again....this may not be realistic. I had a buddy that was all muscle in the army. We had to swim as part of some training we were doing with boots and other gear on...he sank like a stone. I'm not strong at all and not particularly athletic but can swim pretty well, even with boots and other gear. Again...D&D isn't a simulation so this is fine, I think.

I have not read the whole thread yet, so if someone else already pointed this out, I apologize. But anyway, muscle is more dense and will sink, while fat floats. Not sure where a skinny, neither muscular nor fat, person fits on the scale though.

 

[Ed Laprade]

I agree swimming in heavy armor is all but impossible.

I disagree this means automatic failure. After all, this is D&D.

The proper way of expressing "you can't do that" is to set a high Swim DC (20 or even 25) and watch the plate fighter swim just fine.

Besides, this still is D&D. Even the fighter that skips the swim attempt can simply walk across the river (on the bottom).

Remember, this is D&D. You can hold your breath for very long durations with no significant consequences, even while you're heavily exerting yourself. A 18 Con Fighter can hold his breath for 44 rounds.

Assuming one foot of movement costs 4 ft (which pretty much strains the upper limit on slow effects) this is enough to cross a 600 ft wide river.

And that doesn't even take trivial measures into account, such as bringing along a small water-proof bag with you. Half way across the river, you stop to breathe for a single round. By RAW, that is enough to completely reset the suffocation counter.

You can easily walk across the bottom of a mile wide river this way, all within the bounds of the rules as written.

Of course, a DM can simply say "you drown" or rein in this approach to some degree, but let's at least acknowledge that applying common sense and real-life physics doesn't make much sense in a game like D&D.

All very true by RAW. But it still doesn't help much out in the open ocean. Besides, I like at least a little bit of reality in my games. As stated: YMMV.

 

[LordEntrails]

http://www.scratchfactory.com/Resources/LavaBanners/LavaRules.pdf

Amusing, but if they take the same approach to water, useless.

(Just to sum this up for those you don't want to download and read this, "Fall in Lava, You Die, No Saving Throw.")

 

[LordEntrails]

Here's the words I have drafted for the sidebar in my adventure. Thoughts?

The published rules for swimming may feel inadequate in situations that may occur during these encounters. These guide-lines are to help DM’s make rulings if these situations arise.

Characters needing to swim in the Silverthorne can do so with a DC 12 Strength (Athletics) check. In some situations, these checks may be modified, characters that need to make swim checks that can be considered at disadvantage for these checks may include those; wearing armor that impose disadvantage to stealth checks, carrying objects weighing more than 50% of their carrying capacity, holding a shield, or wearing things such as full robes.

 

[Vulf]

Roman soldiers were trained to swim in full armor. They often surprised barbarians by crossing rivers in full kit.

Also, ever heard of the freaking NAVY SEALS?!