D&D 5E Swordmage! (+thread)

[Garthanos]

Wizard is a good point. Bladesinger would be doing, say, 12+Int+Int at level 3 (2wiz/1sm).

I mean, I’m not gonna totally rework the concept for 1 subclass multiclass combo, but it may be worth doing as you suggest and just giving them “12+Int” at level 1, and then increase it by 1 at the appropriate SM levels.

The wizard was a solid multi-hybrid combo with the swordmage too. But not for that kind of synch boost.

Yeah, and I'm okay with the Swordmage needing something active a low levels to have good defense, so the 8+ calculation might work better, along with an active ability to create a magical shield or even a DR effect or something. Maybe even just a parry, tbh. I mean, monks and fighters already have subclasses that do it, and my Assassin does it, but it fits a swordmaster to have a special parry/riposte feature. IDK, I'll think more on it at work today and try to get some basic mechanics in place tomorrow.

exploding shield mentioned in another thread as a defender technique after it explodes you have reduced defenses for a bit.

That fighter has pretty badass defenses regardless of using a riposte though.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The wizard was a solid multi-hybrid combo with the swordmage too. But not for that kind of synch boost.

exploding shield mentioned in another thread as a defender technique after it explodes you have reduced defenses for a bit.

That fighter has pretty badass defenses regardless of using a riposte though.

Yeah some defensive techniques make sense. Doesn’t need super high passive AC, just good enough.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah some defensive techniques make sense. Doesn’t need super high passive AC, just good enough.

Should be able to make the right choices or sub builds and be quite high though that is my opinion although too high actually disables some of the value for a defender model ... just like the riposte is a striker technique unless you are riposting attacks against an ally.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Should be able to make the right choices or sub builds and be quite high though that is my opinion although too high actually disables some of the value for a defender model ... just like the riposte is a striker technique unless you are riposting attacks against an ally.

Well, no, you want the enemy to be in a lose-lose situation, as a defender. Attack you and have a high chance to miss and get wrecked if they hit, or attack the squishy and get wrecked even harder.

Or, impose disadvantage on attacks against anyone else, and punish them if they attack you. Either way, it works.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, no, you want the enemy to be in a lose-lose situation, as a defender. Attack you and have a high chance to miss

If you are too hard to hit and they get wrecked if they do... you are fighting against the motivation they have to attack you instead of the squishies... it fighting against the other punishment which has to be more extreme to make it the preferred choice of two bad choices.

Riposte was a rogue ability not a defender one for that reason in 4e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you are too hard to hit and they get wrecked if they do... you are fighting against the motivation they have to attack you instead of the squishies... it fighting against the other punishment which has to be more extreme to make it the preferred choice of two bad choices.

Riposte was a rogue ability not a defender one for that reason in 4e.

I’m not gonna go in circles on this. I built and played a lot of defenders in 4e, and in 5e. Riposte works either way.

The optimized tactic for 4e defenders is a lose-lose situation. They attack you and basically waste their attack and potentially get smacked, or attack your ally and get punished even harder. Or some other situation where there are no good choices.

None of which is even relevant to the 5e swordmage, since classes don’t have roles, so any defender aspect is going to be optional regardless.

 

[Garthanos]

I’m not gonna go in circles on this. I built and played a lot of defenders in 4e, and in 5e. Riposte works either way.

We are talking about pretty subtle things here this bit was just about what influence you had on npc and dm behavior not something to get angry about even if we disagree.

Note even though a 5e has a fighter using a riposte it takes up the same resource one uses for either the protection fighting style or the Sentinel... do a riposte and you cannot defend your ally

You are right about role flexibility in 5e but they barely had a functioning Defender in my opinion until the Cavalier.

I would like the Swordmage defender be better.

 

[Garthanos]

In 4e there was a maneuver that allowed a Swordmage to do some healing it was a small amount of surgeless healing but got nerfed from role infringement I vaguely recall it being the Unicorns touch.

 

[Garthanos]

Kensei works, but using a name in another language is kind of cheating to me (and it translates to "Sword Saint", so again a compound name).

I know its translated that way but since most real life Kensei are those who started schools of sword fighting and the word Sensei means teacher not certain I think that translation is the right nuance. (My linguistics training is apparently getting itchy)

 

[Garthanos]

In 4e there was a maneuver that allowed a Swordmage to do some healing it was a small amount of surgeless healing but got nerfed from role infringement I vaguely recall it being the Unicorns touch.

Basically the idea is to have a healer archetype for the Swordmage use unicorn symbolism and they can do granting of freedom and granting of mobility too.