T.O.B. mounted combat w/strikes, pounce w/charge maneuvers, and bonuses stacking

[cythrek]

In t.o.b. p.43 it states "In addition, you cannot combine special attacks such as sunder or bull rush with strikes, even if you have feats that make such special attacks more potent. However, some strikes enable you to make special attacks as part of their initiation; see the specific maneuver descriptions in Chapter 4 for details."

Also on p.43 "You do not multiply extra damage from a strike with a successful critical hit. You treat it just as you would extra damage from another special ability, such as sneak attack."

p.39 under bonus types "Some maneuvers and stances grant bonuses to ability scores or Armor Class, on attacks or damage, on saves, or on a number of other variables.... If a maneuver or stance does not identify the type of bonus conferred, its effects stack with all other effects modifying the same characteristic or attribute. Untyped bonuses always stack.

p. 40 under stacking effects "Maneuvers or stances that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes do not stack with each other unless specifically noted within their descriptions."



1. Does this include mounted combat?

2. Pounce is a special attack that modifies charge (another special attack). Wouldn't this mean (according to the quote above) that just because a maneuver has charge as part of its initiation you don't necessarily get to apply pounce to the maneuver as well?

3. Would you multiply the damage from a weapon with the valorous enhancement?

3. Do the bonuses from maneuvers stack?

On all questions please explain why or why not. Thanks!

 

[akbearfoot]

I can only think of 4 maneuvers that involve charging off the top of my head....Boulder Roll(which I think does a bull rush), the 2 White raven strikes, and Pouncing Charge. All of these strikes specifically say you only get 1 attack. Except pouncing charge which duplicates the Pounce ability anyways.


I think the text about bonuses stacking, then later saying they don't stack was just poor editing. Technically it would be a DM call, but I've played high level Initiator classes, and its not normally possible to combine very many maneuvers that give attack bonuses anyways. Standard stacking rules should apply. For example, if you used an Iron Heart Surge to remove an effect, then next round you used a Mithral Tornado. AFAIK you would get the +2 from each maneuver since they are untyped bonuses. If you had Giant Killing Style stance, you could also get the bonus to hit from that(where applicable). And if an attack missed, you could then Initiate Lightning Recovery to reroll the attack with another +2.

I will skip commenting much on the valorous question, because its epic cheeze, and because 4 years later people still don't agree on how it stacks. Sorry, but anyone that can 1-shot a Pit fiend at 10th level with a 2 is way overpowered.

 

[Havoc123456]

what does that valorous thing do and where can i find it? i have never heard of it

 

[cythrek]

Valorous is a weapon enhancement that allows you to do double damage on a charge attack. It is found on page 54 of Unapproachable East. Also its just a +1 bonus to put it on your weapon.