"Tabletop D&D Has Lost Its Way" Says Pathfinder Video Game Exec

Feargus Urquhart, one of the execs from Obsidian Entertainment, which is behind an upcoming Pathfinder-themed video game, told Polygon why the company chose to go with Paizo rather than WotC for tabletop fantasy inspired games. "One of the reasons we actually went with Pathfinder was ... how do you say it? I'll just say it: We were having a hard time figuring out how to move forward with Dungeons and Dragons." The issue, he says, is that "D&D is a part of Wizards of the Coast and WotC is a part of Hasbro" and that he would "love to see D&D be bought by someone and become what it was before... Become TSR again."

Of course, TSR went bankrupt, so I'm not sure wishing that on somebody is a kindness.

Urquhart is a long-time D&D video game exec, having worked on games like Neverwinter Nights 2; he points out that "I'm probably one of the people who has one of the most electronic D&D games that they've worked on". Now, of course, his company has moved on to Paizo's Pathfinder.

The upcoming Obsidian video games will be based on the Pathfinder games - specifically a tablet game based on the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, due in the next few months. The studio is, of course, known to tabletop RPG fans for D&D games like Neverwinter Nights 2. Urquhart did hint at non-card-game based projects, saying that "We're thinking about how can we take traditional RPG stuff and put it on the tablet. No one has solved it really."

You can read the short interview here.

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[Ravenheart87]

??

Wasn't Passive Perception (and, indeed, Insight) in 4e?

Yes, it was in 4e. Honestly, I'm glad he left the boat early with 5e. His work is too crunchy for my taste, without being interesting or inspiring.

 

[aramis erak]

Wizards must have allowed that sort of thing in the past, otherwise, I don't think either Stan! or (as we strongly suspect, Monte) would have approached management with the topic. Nor do I think they'd have forms for that sort of thing if the answer was always going to be "No." That said, we don't know how old those forms are and they might all predate the current (as of Stan!'s writing) VP for HR and the CEO.

TSR sure didn't... hence the suit (against GDW & E Gary Gygax) over Mythus.

It's a pretty damned bog-standard corporate practice in dealing with full-time creative hires to claim ownership of any creative endeavors they work on during their tenure, whether at work or not.

 

[delericho]

TSR sure didn't... hence the suit (against GDW & E Gary Gygax) over Mythus.

I thought Gary had left TSR by then?

In any event, I'm not sure this is a good example - if not this particular suit, then there were others where TSR went after other RPGs designed by EGG after he had left the company - indeed, sometimes long after he had left the company. So I don't think it was so much an issue of 'creatives' working on other things, but rather EGG in particular.

 

[Henry]

I thought Gary had left TSR by then?

In any event, I'm not sure this is a good example - if not this particular suit, then there were others where TSR went after other RPGs designed by EGG after he had left the company - indeed, sometimes long after he had left the company. So I don't think it was so much an issue of 'creatives' working on other things, but rather EGG in particular.

Correct - where Gary was concerned, there was some particular sort of... Vendetta, for lack of a better word, going on. TSR ended up buying Dangerous Journeys in a settlement (GDW wasn't judged on, they apparently went bankrupt from a combo of spending all their time on the lawsuit and the CCG boom, according to a few sources at GDW) and then TSR sat on it. In a world filled with RPGs at the time, they went after Gary's work, I still firmly believe because it was Gary behind it, not from any contracts or infringement.

 

[DEFCON 1]

??

Wasn't Passive Perception (and, indeed, Insight) in 4e?

That was one of the running jokes / concerns here on ENWorld at the time. Cook mentioned the idea of maybe making a "Passive Perception" kind of system in Next (I think in one of his Legends & Lore columns) as a possible direction they could go in, not realizing that it was already in the 4E game. So people were ripping on him for being so far out of the D&D loop that he didn't even know what the game currently was that he was working on.

I found the whole reaction kind of silly, since all of these web articles have always seemed like they were written last minute at the end of the day Friday when the person suddenly remembered "Oh crap, I have an article due!", which is why they've never been completely polished or free of bugaboos. But people here took them so goddamned seriously and you'd think the earth was falling into the sun and that Cook shot their dog based on the reactions people had to him writing as though he was inventing Passive Perception in his column.

 

[Mark CMG]

I don't want to jump on the bandwagon and say that Passive Aggressive Perception was one of Monte's worst RPG ideas.

 

[Iosue]

That was one of the running jokes / concerns here on ENWorld at the time. Cook mentioned the idea of maybe making a "Passive Perception" kind of system in Next (I think in one of his Legends & Lore columns) as a possible direction they could go in, not realizing that it was already in the 4E game. So people were ripping on him for being so far out of the D&D loop that he didn't even know what the game currently was that he was working on.

The exact quote was, 'but what about what I like to call "passive perception?"' Cook later said it was meant to be ironic. Which, I can actually buy, in retrospect. Even if Cook was entirely unfamiliar with 4e, his fellow designers were not, and I'm sure in the course of Perception discussions 4e's method came about. I doubt he suddenly created it on his own and thought he had a new idea.

But when Cook wrote that L&L, 5e hadn't been announced, and as a joke, it fell flat. The reaction was an overreaction, I thought. Part, if not most, of it coming from many people not in favor of Cook working on D&D in the first place. OTOH, Cook's L&Ls were never as good as Mearls' early L&Ls were, and that was one example. (His poll on bringing back strength limitations for female PCs being another.)

 

[Staffan]

Correct - where Gary was concerned, there was some particular sort of... Vendetta, for lack of a better word, going on. TSR ended up buying Dangerous Journeys in a settlement (GDW wasn't judged on, they apparently went bankrupt from a combo of spending all their time on the lawsuit and the CCG boom, according to a few sources at GDW) and then TSR sat on it. In a world filled with RPGs at the time, they went after Gary's work, I still firmly believe because it was Gary behind it, not from any contracts or infringement.

Yeah, TSR claimed that Dangerous Journeys violated their copyright in a few hundred instances. Some examples:

[sblock](4) The concept of adjusting a character's abilities corresponding to its age found in MYTHUS (pages 104-105) is derived from the similar concept in the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (page 13).

(7) The MYTHUS concept of character vocations in MYTHUS (pages 13 and 70-71) is derived from the character class concept in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (pages 18-33); the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 16-21); and the AD&D UA (pages 12-25 and 74-75).

(17) The K/S Area of Buffoonery in MYTHUS (pages 179-182) is derived from the Jester character class in TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #60 (pages 45-49); TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #65 (page 9); and TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #67 (page 61).

(32) The method used in MYTHUS (page 9) of resolving game action by generating random numbers on a linear probability scale is derived from a similar method used in the AD&D game system in the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 9-10).

(36) The "First Aid" skill in MYTHUS (pages 28 and 165) is derived from the AD&D "Cure Light Wounds" spell in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 43) and the AD&D OA (page 57).

(48) The races of other-world elves called the Elves, Fay and Faeries, from the fantasy world known as Phaeree in MYTHUS (pages 332- 333), are derived from a race of other-world elves called the "Pharisees" in the AD&D QUEEN OF THE SPIDERS game module (pages 107-108) and the AD&D QUEEN OF THE DEMONWEB PITS game module (pages 13-14).

(49) The game turns mechanic in MYTHUS (pages 20 and 130-131) are derived from the game turns mechanics in AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 39)
and the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (page 38).

(89) The Armor, Physical Cantrip in MYTHUS (page 278) and MYTHUS MAGICK (page 34) is derived from the Armor Spell in the AD&D UA (pages 51-52).

(114) The Circe's Transformation Spell in MYTHUS MAGICK (page 56) is derived from the Polymorph Other Spell in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 78) and the AD&D OA (page 86).[/sblock]

And so on, and so on.

 

[SirAntoine]

It was all of the sourcebooks that put TSR onto the fast train to self-destruction, and very nearly ended D&D.

Having a company that puts the fans before making a profit is like dating a porn star - it sounds great until you're the one cleaning up the mess.

It happens. It doesn't mean the same people wouldn't do better if given a second chance, though. I have said again and again, "just listen to the fans", and I doubt this will ever be bad advice.

 

[SirAntoine]

Yeah, TSR claimed that Dangerous Journeys violated their copyright in a few hundred instances. Some examples:

[sblock](4) The concept of adjusting a character's abilities corresponding to its age found in MYTHUS (pages 104-105) is derived from the similar concept in the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (page 13).

(7) The MYTHUS concept of character vocations in MYTHUS (pages 13 and 70-71) is derived from the character class concept in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (pages 18-33); the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 16-21); and the AD&D UA (pages 12-25 and 74-75).

(17) The K/S Area of Buffoonery in MYTHUS (pages 179-182) is derived from the Jester character class in TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #60 (pages 45-49); TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #65 (page 9); and TSR's DRAGON Magazine, issue #67 (page 61).

(32) The method used in MYTHUS (page 9) of resolving game action by generating random numbers on a linear probability scale is derived from a similar method used in the AD&D game system in the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 9-10).

(36) The "First Aid" skill in MYTHUS (pages 28 and 165) is derived from the AD&D "Cure Light Wounds" spell in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 43) and the AD&D OA (page 57).

(48) The races of other-world elves called the Elves, Fay and Faeries, from the fantasy world known as Phaeree in MYTHUS (pages 332- 333), are derived from a race of other-world elves called the "Pharisees" in the AD&D QUEEN OF THE SPIDERS game module (pages 107-108) and the AD&D QUEEN OF THE DEMONWEB PITS game module (pages 13-14).

(49) The game turns mechanic in MYTHUS (pages 20 and 130-131) are derived from the game turns mechanics in AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 39)
and the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (page 38).

(89) The Armor, Physical Cantrip in MYTHUS (page 278) and MYTHUS MAGICK (page 34) is derived from the Armor Spell in the AD&D UA (pages 51-52).

(114) The Circe's Transformation Spell in MYTHUS MAGICK (page 56) is derived from the Polymorph Other Spell in the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 78) and the AD&D OA (page 86).[/sblock]

And so on, and so on.

Horrifying. If I had known, I may never have played 2nd Edition.