D&D 5E Talking about the Alchemist

[Chaosmancer]

I am sneaking onto my phone, so I don't have all the texts in front of me, but I wanted to talk about the alchemist subclass and try and figure out why it is so nerfed and what some good solutions could be.

I want to compare it to the artilloerist, because it looked like it barely changed.

So, at 3rd level the alchemist gets a single, consumable potion. This potion has a random effect and takes an action to use.

Also at 3rd level the Aterillist can make a turret that lasts for an hour and takes a bonus action to use. This turret can have one of three chosen effects.

So, immediate problems in action economy and staying power. The elixir takes longer to use and it is single use.

Is it more powerful?

Not really. Alchemist is the healer. They can heal 2d4+2. The turret can give temp hp every round. In terms of pure hp, nine uses (3 fights, 3 rounds) gives many many times more than that single potion.

So ... Why did they weaken it so thouroughly?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Because people hated the homunculus.

 

[Leatherhead]

Technically, it was buffed as a healer. They get access to Healing Word and Heal now. And they do get more infusions, so you can still technically get a Homunculus, just at level 6 instead of three. Unfortunately, as a half-caster, everyone will expect them to churn out the DPR like a Paladin or Ranger, and it is noticeably harder for them to do so.

Here are the main changes:

1. The Artificer as a whole lost extra attack (except for the Battlesmith). This is not quite as big a deal as it could be, because you can just pick up Firebolt and do bonus INT damage starting at level 5 for roughly the same effect, and do better at higher levels
2. The Alchemist had their Homunculus turned into an infusion. People didn't like the Artficer being a pet class (ironically, the Homunculus was the only pet I didn't have a problem with, I even thought the Iron Defender should have been the central feature of it's own subclass separate from the Battlesmith), and people demanded that the alchemist did something with potions (despite brewing potions being ostensibly a downtime activity).

So in return for the free Homunculus, you get Experimental Elixir. And Experimental Elixir is kind of bad for three reasons.

1. It's Random. At least the free ones are. Which are the ones you are going to want to use.
2. They don't scale well. At level 9 they do give out additional temp hps, which is it for scaling.
3. They severely eat into the action economy.

If it was just something like "You can make X/day Elixirs. They are like healing potions except everyone can use them as a bonus action. Additionally, when you get into higher levels, you can make Elixirs that have different effects by expending leveled spell slots" It would have been much better.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I was thinking of looking at the older UA, where they had the bottomless potion bag, see if I could pull in those mechanics

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because the alchemist has always been a better class in theory than in practice.

Always?

Always.

Which is weird, because chemistry and alchemy are solid fantasy elements. More than any other aspect except "the hero" or "the trickster"

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm guessing it's because classes that depend on making things for their powers tend to rely on ... well, mechanics that feel less "adventure-y" and more "homework-y."

It doesn't mean you can't do it well, but it's a much greater degree of difficulty to make an engaging Alchemist than some sort of Fight-y or Spell-y class.

Unless they’ve seen the gate of truth

 

[BookBarbarian]

Unless they’ve seen the gate of truth

The latest version definitely fails to capture the alchemy techniques that HAVE BEEN PASSED DOWN THROUGH THE ARMSTRONG FAMILY FOR GENERATIONS!

 

[Chaosmancer]

So, I'm home and have access to materials again. Let us propose this instead.

Potent Elixir

Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you finish a long rest, you can magically produce an elixir in an empty flask you touch. Choose an Elixir Effect from the table, which is triggered when someone drinks the elixir or throws it. As an action, a creature can drink the elixir or administer it to an incapacitated creature.

Creating an elixir requires you to have alchemist’s supplies on your person, and any elixir you create with this feature lasts until it is drunk or until the end of your next long rest.

When you reach certain levels in this class, you can make more elixirs at the end of a long rest: two at 6th level and three at 15th level. Each elixir requires its own flask.

You can create additional experimental elixirs by expending a spell slot of 1st level or higher for each one. When you do so, you use your action to create the elixir in an empty flask you touch, and you choose the elixir’s effect from the Experimental Elixir table.

If an Elixir requires a saving throw, the DC is 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier.

Alchemical Fire: You create a vial of volatile liquid which you can hurl at a creature, object, or surface within 30 feet of you. On impact, the vial detonates in a 5-foot radius. Any creature in that area must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 4d6 fire damage.

This damage increases by 1d6 when you reach certain levels in this class: 9th level, 15th level, and 19th level

(Maxes out at 7d6, and you get three. A Flamethrower turret does 3d8 in similiar area a turn by the mid point, so I feel comparable)

Alchemical Acid: You create a vial of acid, and hurl the vial at a creature or object within 30 feet of you. The vial shatters on impact. A creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d8 acid damage. An object automatically takes that damage, and the damage is maximized.

This damage increases by 1d8 when you reach certain levels in this class: 9th level, 15th level, and 19th level

(Maxes out at 5d8, Force turret does 3d8 per hit by mid level)

Healing Draught: You create a vial of potent healing liquid. A creature can drink it as an bonus action to regain 2d8 hit points.

This healing increases by 1d8 when you reach certain levels in this class: 9th level, 15th level, and 19th level

(Maxes out at 5d8, Temp Hp turret does 1d8+mod as a bonus action, temp hp is rarely wasted)

Swift Step Draught: You create a vial of bubbling, brown liquid. As an action, a creature can drink it. Doing so increases the creature’s speed by 10 feet for 1 hour.

This increase increases by 5 ft at 9th level, 15th level, and 19th level

Resilient Draught You create a vial of iron-grey liquid. As an action, a creature can drink it. Doing so increases the creatures Ac by +1 for 10 minutes.

The duration increases by 20 minutes at 9th level and becomes an hour at 19th level. The AC bonus increases to +2 AC at 15th level.

Just as a rough draft. I'm thinking of adding the bless brew, but thinking of scaling it along the same lines is difficult.