D&D 5E Tasha's Mind Sliver and Shadow Sorcerer. The most efficient spellcaster?

[Sacrosanct]

OK but that's not a good use of the spell unless those allies were already nearly down due to loss of hit points. The allies should be more effective as whatever class they normally are, and that's THEIR damage they do as an ape, which is likely lower than the damage they'd normally do. I mean, I like Polymorph, but you don't count damage your allies do because you polymorphed them unless they were going to do less damage without the polymorph spell.

Now, if you had polymorphed some sort of summoned creatures or pets under your control, then I'd be more interested in that aspect. But just "I turn my fellow players into Apes" will likely get you smacked by your fellow players unless they're in trouble.

It's particularly rare to find TWO allies who are in need of rescue with a polymorph spell. My wizard has Polymorph and it's probably needed once every two full sessions (8 hours of real time). It's never been needed/wanted twice simultaneously, again unless you pair this with some sort of pet or summoned creature under your control and not another PC.

Polymorph is CR monster vs level, so an 8th level PC getting changed into a CR8 T rex. No rescue needed. That t rex is doing far more damage than a typical 8th level PC, and the PC isn't spending any if their resources. So if the t rex goes down, now you have a PC with everything at their disposal.

 

[Hohige]

Polymorph is CR monster vs level, so an 8th level PC getting changed into a CR8 T rex. No rescue needed. That t rex is doing far more damage than a typical 8th level PC, and the PC isn't spending any if their resources. So if the t rex goes down, now you have a PC with everything at their disposal.

+ The hound's damage + knock prone is a lot of damage per turn.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I played a shadow sorcerer in our avernus campaign, and there were plenty of takers to be polymorphed into t rexes. In fact, because darn near everything in DiA has magic resistance (the hound nullified that, but no disadvantage), it was better to polymorph allies vs monsters.

But it was super effective, yeah. Even with t rexes getting hit every round due to sucky AC

 

[Hohige]

I played a shadow sorcerer in our avernus campaign, and there were plenty of takers to be polymorphed into t rexes. In fact, because darn near everything in DiA has magic resistance (the hound nullified that, but no disadvantage), it was better to polymorph allies vs monsters.

But it was super effective, yeah. Even with t rexes getting hit every round due to sucky AC

Two T- Rexes + The Hound is twice DC 17 grappling + DC 13 knock prone per turn. Its scary for The victim.

 

[Mistwell]

Polymorph is CR monster vs level, so an 8th level PC getting changed into a CR8 T rex. No rescue needed. That t rex is doing far more damage than a typical 8th level PC, and the PC isn't spending any if their resources. So if the t rex goes down, now you have a PC with everything at their disposal.

No, that T-rex REALLY isn't doing "far more" damage than a typical 8th level PC. Come on man, this game has been out 6 years, we've all played with Polymorph. It's best use is when a PC's hit points are very low. You do not want to be replacing your unharmed Cleric with a Giant Ape. THEY don't want you doing that either. Plus tons of stuff starts having resistance to non-magical damage at those levels.

There are a few classes that might like it every once in a while, but the best use of Polymorph is not when the PC is at or near full hit points. It's when they need help. Because you don't know who is going to need help and it's essentially like the Wizard or Sorcerer's best combat healing spell.

 

[Sacrosanct]

No, that T-rex REALLY isn't doing "far more" damage than a typical 8th level PC. Come on man, this game has been out 6 years, we've all played with Polymorph. It's best use is when a PC's hit points are very low. You do not want to be replacing your unharmed Cleric with a Giant Ape. THEY don't want you doing that either. Plus tons of stuff starts having resistance to non-magical damage at those levels.

There are a few classes that might like it every once in a while, but the best use of Polymorph is not when the PC is at or near full hit points. It's when they need help. Because you don't know who is going to need help and it's essentially like the Wizard or Sorcerer's best combat healing spell.

What 8th level PC does an average of 55 damage per round? I anxiously look forward to your math.

 

[NotAYakk]

No, that T-rex REALLY isn't doing "far more" damage than a typical 8th level PC. Come on man, this game has been out 6 years, we've all played with Polymorph. It's best use is when a PC's hit points are very low. You do not want to be replacing your unharmed Cleric with a Giant Ape. THEY don't want you doing that either. Plus tons of stuff starts having resistance to non-magical damage at those levels.

There are a few classes that might like it every once in a while, but the best use of Polymorph is not when the PC is at or near full hit points. It's when they need help. Because you don't know who is going to need help and it's essentially like the Wizard or Sorcerer's best combat healing spell.

Yep, it turns a wounded combatant that needs a whole pile of healing resources into ... a different combatant who has a pile of HP to go through.

The annoying part is you can't heal the baseline HP back up. So they have to disengage before the apeload of HP fades.

 

[Mistwell]

What 8th level PC does an average of 55 damage per round? I anxiously look forward to your math.

Any full spellcaster with an area of effect spell? Shoot a fireball will do that if just TWO targets are hit! There are even second level spells that will do it.

Shoot, my arcane trickster rogue does it at 6th level when they get a second sneak attack from a reaction. Our Paladin do it with smiting at those levels too. I think our ranged attacking ranger does it too at 8th level. Pretty sure our polearm master fighter with GWM is doing that too at 8th with his magic glaive.

And remember, you have 1) no ranged attacks, and 2) no magic attacks, a 2 intelligence, a +1 wis mod, and a -1 charisma mod, and you cannot communicate with your teammates (not even telepathically really as you have a 2 intelligence now) while in polymorph form. It's REALLY not a wise form to be in if you can help it, particularly at the levels you're talking about with a t-rex.

Again, we've ALL played with polymorph - I don't even know how this is a debate 6 years in, since it's one of the most popular spells. Blowing your higher level slot to polymorph someone before their hit points are lower is not a good use of the spell most of the time. It's a great spell when you need it because you've been hit a lot, particularly if the healer is low on cure spells. But, just for the attack and damage bonus outside of those considerations? Not a good idea most of the time.

 

[Hohige]

Any full spellcaster with an area of effect spell? Shoot a fireball will do that if just TWO targets are hit! There are even second level spells that will do it.

Shoot, my arcane trickster rogue does it at 6th level when they get a second sneak attack from a reaction. Our Paladin do it with smiting at those levels too. I think our ranged attacking ranger does it too at 8th level. Pretty sure our polearm master fighter with GWM is doing that too at 8th with his magic glaive.

And remember, you have 1) no ranged attacks, and 2) no magic attacks, a 2 intelligence, a +1 wis mod, and a -1 charisma mod, and you cannot communicate with your teammates (not even telepathically really as you have a 2 intelligence now) while in polymorph form. It's REALLY not a wise form to be in if you can help it, particularly at the levels you're talking about with a t-rex.

Again, we've ALL played with polymorph - I don't even know how this is a debate 6 years in, since it's one of the most popular spells. Blowing your higher level slot to polymorph someone before their hit points are lower is not a good use of the spell most of the time. It's a great spell when you need it because you've been hit a lot, particularly if the healer is low on cure spells. But, just for the attack and damage bonus outside of those considerations? Not a good idea most of the time.

Please a caster spending resources to cast a AOE spell for situational aoe damage, a fireball deals 28 damage... A paladin spending resources to smite. A caster level 8 doesnt have 140 HP.
While Polymorphed is for 600 rounds without spending resources and It gains 140 Temporary HP.
It deals average 50 damage with +10 to hit and The target is automatically restrained (DC 17 to scape)
Magical weapons for PC is DM Fiat.

Instead T rex, Giant Ape is also strong, has ranged attack and It has 8 int.
When the creature is defeated, you have a PC with Full HP and resources.
Twin Polymorph + The hound is a game changer.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Any full spellcaster with an area of effect spell? Shoot a fireball will do that if just TWO targets are hit! There are even second level spells that will do it.

Shoot, my arcane trickster rogue does it at 6th level when they get a second sneak attack from a reaction. Our Paladin do it with smiting at those levels too. I think our ranged attacking ranger does it too at 8th level. Pretty sure our polearm master fighter with GWM is doing that too at 8th with his magic glaive.

And remember, you have 1) no ranged attacks, and 2) no magic attacks, a 2 intelligence, a +1 wis mod, and a -1 charisma mod, and you cannot communicate with your teammates (not even telepathically really as you have a 2 intelligence now) while in polymorph form. It's REALLY not a wise form to be in if you can help it, particularly at the levels you're talking about with a t-rex.

Again, we've ALL played with polymorph - I don't even know how this is a debate 6 years in, since it's one of the most popular spells. Blowing your higher level slot to polymorph someone before their hit points are lower is not a good use of the spell most of the time. It's a great spell when you need it because you've been hit a lot, particularly if the healer is low on cure spells. But, just for the attack and damage bonus outside of those considerations? Not a good idea most of the time.

Every round doing that damage? Nope. Try again. Where is the math that an 8th level PC does an average of 53 damage per round, every round. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it. And that's not even factoring in the other benefits as mentioned above.