Teleport and Initiative

[daemonslye]

Although this is an "initiative" question... We may want to point out a few inconsistencies. Based on the information below, it may be stretching things a bit to say that you have studied the same 20'r area for an entire hour without the subject moving unless they were sleeping. Additionally, it seems rather convenient that this space is exactly 120' away from the supposed victim. Of course you could be trying for the "Viewed Once" type of teleport. Good luck.

As for initiative - "The DM determines who is aware of whom at the start of a battle. He may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks to see how aware the adventurers are of their opponents." (PHB p.137); Assuming the "bad guys" were wary, this may call for a bonus on their spot check. Also note: "Readying is a standard action." (PHB p.160); Until initiative begins actions may not be "readied". Now, it seems open to interpretation as to when this begin - It seems clear that two opponents may be out of range and yet still roll initiative. However - I would rule (in this case) that until one side had the opportunity to affect the other, initiative would not be rolled and actions cannot be readied. "Affect" would be defined as more than simply a scry sensor. If the "bad guys", upon detecting the sensor wished to spend time using spells at risk of wasting them, and the "other guys" gave them the time, just ask the "other guys" how much time they will allow. The spell lasts up to 1min (or 1hr/level for greater).

To Sum Up: Wizards teleport in, possibly nearer than they want; Bad guys roll spot/listen etc. If someone notices something, roll init. If not, surprise away - Then roll init. Easy.

Scry/Teleport: This never seemed too unfair given the bonuses to save for scry, the likelyhood at higher levels to note the scry attempt, the inaccuracy of teleport, and the obvious counters to scry. Of course, the DM will have the final say.

Fieari

The good guys scried, sent out the message that everyone was to go there now, and then did it. The bad guys detected the sensor, and have reason to expect an attack.

Tyreus

If all of a sudden theres two people 120 ft behind you, don't they get to act first?

PHB p.274

If the save fails, you can see and hear
the subject and the subject’s immediate
surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all
directions of the subject). If the subject
moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up
to 150 feet

PHB p.292

“Studied carefully” is a
place you know well, either because you
can currently see it, you’ve been there
often, or you have used other means (such
as scrying) to study the place for at least
one hour.
...“Viewed
once” is a place that you have seen once,
possibly using magic.

 

[BSF]

If the scry were undetected, I would give the teleporter's a surprise round. If the scry is detected, I want to know what both sides are doing. Think about it, you are in your fortress, you detect a scry happening, you are going to prep yourself and summon your allies/guards. If the attackers don't arrive in a few rounds, then you start prepping the room for defense. The above mentioned tactics of obscuring mist, caltrops, wall of force, etc. Heck, maybe a forbiddance if there is time. Wall of Ice to fill most of the room, all sorts of things.

My point is that one side can argue their perspective all day long, it doesn't matter until something happens. If the 'porters wait too long, their scry is going to be useless. The defenders know this, so the attack has got to happen soon. Once something happens, then you need to adjudicate it accordingly.

If the attack happens while the defenders are ready for it, then roll initiative as normal. The 'porters were _hoping_ that the scry wasn't detected and were _hoping_ to get the drop on the defenders. It didn't happen. If the 'porters wait long enough for the defenders to drop their guard, then you get a surprise attack. Unless nobody is in the room, or the room was prepped with other surprises. So, it all depends on what happens. Right now, the 'porters don't have surprise because the defenders are expecting a scry-teleport combo. Five minutes from now, what are the defenders doing? Five hours? Five days? It all depends on how each side responds.

 

[BSF]

I scried upon them, I knew where they were.

Yes, you knew where they were, not where they are. Now, if you teleport in and nobody has moved, or changed the environment, or anything like that, then sure, you get surprise. But, say you appear ready to do something where they were, but they have since moved. Maybe they are on the other side of you. Maybe you telported where a pool of acid is and the teleport shunts you to one side. Maybe you teleport and you can't see the target because of darkness/obscuring mist/wall of iron in the way. Just because you knew what the area was like in the past does not mean you know what it is like _right now_.