Thanks, guys, you've ruined Haste for the rest of us.

[Stalker0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Quickened for sorcerors

It's not a full-round casting time, it's a full round action. There's a huge difference there, and given that the only cost for a Sorcerer to use a metamagic feat is a move/move-equivalent action, they are generally better suited to using metamagic than a wizard is.

I agree, metamagics seem more for sorcs, and item creation for wizards. I mean the ability to just slap on any combination of metamagic onto a spell is huge, much nicer than having to prepare specific versions ahead of time, when you don't have a clue when the metamagic might be needed.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

It isn't that difficult to modify Quicken for a sorcerer's use. Just list that the sorcerer chooses two spells to cast in advance, the normal one and the quickened one, and assume that the sorcerer is weaving the incantation together raising the level of Quickened spell.

Still a Full Round action, but allows a sorcerer to use the Quicken feat.

 

[hong]

Yeah, but what if I'm not the DM?

Then you bend over and take it like a man.


Hong "so to speak" Ooi

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, concerning the title of this thread...

It would be soooooo nice if WotC would check these boards about what to change

 

[Storm Raven]

Nice try. That's not "a fighter of 11th to 12th level"

That's "An 11th level fighter-rogue with a couple levels of a PrC"

Try again with pure fighter/warrior, and only core rules. 'Cause if you want to introduce non-core rules, I can trick out a wizard pretty well too.

It's not that hard with just the core rules. It is easier to do more damage with melee types.

Fighter6/Barbarian5, Half-Orc

Strength 16 base, adjusted for Race 18, adjusted for level increases 20.

Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Improved Critical (Greatsword)

+4 Belt of Giant Strength, +2 Keen Greatsword

BAB +10, Strength +7 (+9 when raging), +1 Focus, +2 Magic = +22/+17/+12 Attack Bonus when raging

Damage 2d6+17 when raging = average of 24
Critical on a 15-20 (25% of typical attacks) increases average to 30

Against a cloud giant (AC 21) average damage per round is ~70.5 points of damage per round

This does not even begin to consider the increased damage potential from feats like Power Attack, Cleave, or Great Cleave

 

[Ferox4]

bump Haste to 4th level and bring back the aging effect

Bump Haste to 4th AND make it age the character one year/per use as it did back in 1E. Easy now, before you all knee jerk on me, hear me out.

Many people agree that Haste is too powerful, but the proposed change makes it too weak. The full
round casting time is a good notion, but still leaves Haste as a very powerful spell. By bumping it another level you restrict its availability until 7th level and the aging factor will put severe limits on its abuse. Though I am unsure of what magicks should reverse the aging effects, I would propose that they be 6th or 7th level spells (Heal, Greater Restoration) and that these only repair 1d4 years of aging on top of their normal benefits. This would certainly stop the use of Haste in every combat situaton.

Ok, now you can crucify me. (BTW, I have the new DR 5/rusty iron)

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: bump Haste to 4th level and bring back the aging effect

Bump Haste to 4th AND make it age the character one year/per use as it did back in 1E. Easy now, before you all knee jerk on me, hear me out.

Well, consider the problems.

Biggest problem: dragons. Woohoo! An intelligent dragon will take haste as a third level spell ASAP and cast it over and over every day until she's a great wyrm.
Second problem: elves. Whereas a human will think long and hard before casting haste, elves won't care much. They can cast it hundreds of times before they notice the effects. To a lesser degree, dwarves and halflings will have the same attitude. I'm not sure this is a positive game effect.

I actually kind of like the balance method in Baldur's Gate II: hasted characters are fatigued once the spell wears off. The problem with this trick, however, is that it encourages hit-and-run tactics, encourages PCs to engage in one big encounter every day, rather than have lots of smaller ones. Although some campaigns work well with this structure (it's how I tend to run my games), it is counter to the style that the rules generally encourage -- the CR system, for example, encourages about 4 encounters every game day.

Daniel

 

[Henry]

Hmm, concerning the title of this thread...

It would be soooooo nice if WotC would check these boards about what to change

FRIENDLY RANT FORTHCOMING

(Darklone, I'm not directing this little mini-rant at you, just so you know; but in the past there have been many people who wonder the same thing on a serious note, so I'll let everyone know at the same time.)


I have a secret for everyone- they DO.



We aren't the ONLY and final word on revisions to the rules, but I can Guarantee you of at least THREE current WotC employees and about FOUR ex-WotC employees who surf ENWorld regularly, and almost every one of them had some sort of influence or input in the creative process over the past three years.

The staff of Dragon and Dungeon magazine (I know Johnny Wilson and Erik Mona do) visit these boards regularly, so even Paizo checks these boards (among others) to see what we're thinking.

And you know something funny?

The past two years, these boards have been AWASH in "Harm/Haste/Rangers are broken" threads. I'm not saying they're wrong or right, but DOZENS of posters have presented thousands of words of exposition, facts, figures, and anecdotes for or against the power level of Haste.

It's really a "darned if you do/don't" scenario. I guarantee anyone cash on the barrel-head that, had they not touched Haste come July's revision, there would be threads on ENWorld, about 25% of which we would have to lock up, with titles like, "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T FIX HASTE!!!" or WTH is up with Harm not getting fixed!?!?!?! and so on, and so forth.

How do we know that WotC employees and affiliates look at these boards?

They tell us. Paizo's staff REQUESTED, for instance, that we put [Dragon], [Dungeon], and [Poly] tags on all threads having to do with them.

Anthony Valterra is head of RPG Category at WotC, and a regular contributor to these boards.

If one were to look, one would see almost half of the WotC designers, past and present, have user accounts at ENWorld.

People look. We just aren't the only voices they hear.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Bump Haste to 4th AND make it age the character one year/per use as it did back in 1E. Easy now, before you all knee jerk on me, hear me out.

Different core races have a different life span, and it wouldn't work anyway.

What happens if your character started play at 10th-level? How many times will they have been hasted? Is there a random calculator for this? What if you roll that you lost many years? What if you were an elf?

There's a reason why aging effects are virtually removed from 3e.

I don't think fatigue after the fact works - perhaps temporary Con damage afterwards? At the very least that takes a 2nd-level spell to fix that the wizard can't cast himself.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Damn dem cheaters, they wrecked my wizard for spite.

I have boots and potions and scrolls of haste and now, Useless! I better be able to trade them good.

There goes my strategy #1 and I have no alternatives. Now I have to return back to relying on my friends to play a part in battle, damnations.

What was wrong with the baddies blasting us with 2 cones of cold, it was countered by the baddie being hasted and slowing us easy... but he could only do it for the one encounter in which he fought us and if he ever fought some other pcs he would run out of spells.

What spell do I now have to always turn to without fail at the beginning of battle, oops are you all sleeping?

Now I'm forced to use the quicken feat@!

Thanks WOTC, I'm going to have to suck o my dm to let me have the BROKEN old version to keep my lame pc playable.