Agreed. They would be nice if they actually granted you an additional use of your Channel Divinity powers.
As it is, you just get another option with a highly situational benefit. Clerics should get one of these for free.
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The best of feats, the worst of feats...
- Thread starter Jürgen Hubert
- Start date
As it is, you just get another option with a highly situational benefit. Clerics should get one of these for free.
There's a couple that are worth it. Correlon's Feat is pretty strong, Bahumut's ability to negate a crit is pretty nice as well. But overall I agree, the CD feats just aren't worth the feat AND giving up your normal channel divinity power for the encounter.
Magus Coeruleus
Explorer
I'll put another word of love in for Skill Training. Given the consolidation of the skills (each matters more than in 3.x), the increased relevance of skills in the system (e.g. skill challenges), the relative paucity of bonuses to skills, and the +5 you get instead of +3, I think Skill Training can be very useful in the right campaign. Similarly, even if people aren't crazy about the multiclass feats as a way to multiclass, they're great if you are interested in skill training that could be acquired along with a free class-related perk.
For example, one of the PCs in my current game is a fighter whose background and experience (along with the adventure's challenges) really argue for him having Nature as a trained skill. Since there's no intent to multiclass outside of that, there's no reason not to take Warrior of the Wild and for free get Hunter's Quarry 1/encounter for 1 or 2 rounds of +1d8 damage in addition to the +5 to Nature.
Similar for the Warlord PC who needed Streetwise, and so went ahead and got Student of the Sword for that plus a free +1 to hit with (in his case) 1 handed weapons and marking 1/encounter.
For example, one of the PCs in my current game is a fighter whose background and experience (along with the adventure's challenges) really argue for him having Nature as a trained skill. Since there's no intent to multiclass outside of that, there's no reason not to take Warrior of the Wild and for free get Hunter's Quarry 1/encounter for 1 or 2 rounds of +1d8 damage in addition to the +5 to Nature.
Similar for the Warlord PC who needed Streetwise, and so went ahead and got Student of the Sword for that plus a free +1 to hit with (in his case) 1 handed weapons and marking 1/encounter.
? - Surely, by definition, you only get a surprise round when you're prepared and they're not, hence you'd have a weapon ready.
Goumindong
First Post
Lets see:
Interesting:
Power Attack: For Rangers especially at later levels
Weapon Focus: For rangers especially at later levels
Blade Opportunist: For Fighters: Very handy with specific feat combinations
Combat Reflexes: For fighters: Combine with blade opportunist for +3 to attack for opportunity attakcs
Dodge Giants: For dwarves +1 AC and Ref are never bad, and lots of creatures are lg or larger
Defensive Mobility: +2 AC is never bad, untyped too
Fast Runner: +2 to move when you run on top of the +2 you already get can easily shore up the slow speed of dwarves or make a faster race even faster.
Dragon Born Frenzy: For a ranger, why not?
X Weapon Training: for a ranger? Why not?
Enlarged Dragon Breath: For when your fighter just absolutely has to mark every enemy in the room.
Healing Hands: More healing never hurts
Human Perseverance: Awesome for humans, you can never get enough saving throw bonuses.
Action Surge; Awesome for humans, +3 attack when you really want to hit is pretty important
Improved Init: Everyone loves +4 to init, don't use with quickdraw
Quickdraw: For everyone that can't afford to lose actions at the start of a fight, also +2 init is nice
Armor/Shield Proficiency: Near Necessary
Surprise Knockdown: Really handy if your rogue goes to daggermaster
Wintertouched: Similar to the +damage feats this works well in combination.
Durability: Combines nicely with items that key off of healing surges. A dwarven fighter with decent con can run upwards of 13 healing surges a day which is 13 rounds of 10,20, or 30% resist all with the right armor.(less realistically)
Paragon Tier
Action Recovery: Extra saves = Good
Arcane Reach: Blasts at range = Very good
Armor Spec(scale): For non-dwarves its the only one really useful. The rest are O.K.
Iron Will/Ref/Fort: +2 defence is always good.
Defensive Advantage: Fighter and flanker team up for effective -4 penalty when attacking the flanker. That is pretty massive.
Combat Commander: For a high int/cha warlord to take advantage of their many secondary abilities this one is just icing on the cake. Everyone gets +2-4 more initiative. Its like giving your team improved init without them taking an action.
Dwarven Durability: Not only is +2 healing surge nice, but 2 extra healing surges adds up. Combines nicely with items that are powered by healing surges.(see durability) and effects that let you use healing surges
Evasion: More defensive powers to reduce damage
Mettle: See above
Blood Thirst: For rangers, +2 each attack, not too shabby.
Back to the Wall: Handy for defenders, rangers, anyone who wants more attack, damage and defense.
Heavy Blade Opportunity: Just plain awesome.
Improved Second Wind: Stack up that healing and save your cleric or warlord actions. Better to avoid it, but its not bad.
Lasting Frost: Great for anyone with cold weapons. If you or an ally pick up a cold weapon consider feat swapping into this and/or wintertouched.
Pole-Arm Gamble: Step 1, get a glaive: Step 2, get Heavy Blade Opportunity, Step 3, Get Blade opportunity, Step 4, get combat reflexes. Step 5, make at wills against any enemy that moves adjacent to you (from squares not) at +3 to attack.
Uncanny Dodge: See above, negate Pole-arm Gamble penalty.
Psychic Lock: Really great for bloodmages any anone who does psychic damage
Second Implement: Another encounter power to use, and the masteries are strong. Unfortunately the best combo is hard to use(staff/anything else) since you need two hands to use the staff.
Spell Focus: Very very strong.
Epic:
Arcane Mastery: Got a wizard who saved his action points throughout 3 encounters? Burn one of them and regain a daily wizard power. Really handy for out of combat use to regain utility spells.
x Mastery: Criticals are great, much better than they were in 3.5
Epic Resuranges: Great if you make a lot of rolls, not sure how this will play out. combines well with weapon masteries.
Spell Accuracy: Now the wizard can blast without worrying about where his friends are.
Irrestible Flame: 20 more damage on fire powers is handy.
Multi-class feats:
Rogue multi-class. Its an immediate action +2d6 damage as an encounter power, up to 5d6 later on. Not ever useless.
Wizard Multi-class: One reason only: Opens up the Archmage epic destiny for Warlocks, which can use the powers because they specific arcane spells and not wizard spells.
Any multi-class: If you meet the pre-reqs and would be taking a skill training in the skill, why not get some extra benefits for it?
ED:
Some bad:
Triumphant attack:
why do you people like triumphant attack? its -2 attack and defense on a crit which ends on a save and none of the melee classes have abilities that will keep it on. So you get +2 attack and +2 defense against the monster for 1 or maybe 2 rounds? Epic resurgence is a lot better since you will be making a lot of attack rolls.
Combat Anticipation: Doesn't stack with anything since its feat bonuses and not untyped. Each time you take something like lightning reflexes you diminish its utility. Take shield spec and you get 1/2 the bonus except you get it all the time rather than just against those attack types. Take shield spec, iron will, and great fort and you are ahead of the game, take an armor spec, and the rest of the defenses and combat anticipation has become obsolete.
Interesting:
Power Attack: For Rangers especially at later levels
Weapon Focus: For rangers especially at later levels
Blade Opportunist: For Fighters: Very handy with specific feat combinations
Combat Reflexes: For fighters: Combine with blade opportunist for +3 to attack for opportunity attakcs
Dodge Giants: For dwarves +1 AC and Ref are never bad, and lots of creatures are lg or larger
Defensive Mobility: +2 AC is never bad, untyped too
Fast Runner: +2 to move when you run on top of the +2 you already get can easily shore up the slow speed of dwarves or make a faster race even faster.
Dragon Born Frenzy: For a ranger, why not?
X Weapon Training: for a ranger? Why not?
Enlarged Dragon Breath: For when your fighter just absolutely has to mark every enemy in the room.
Healing Hands: More healing never hurts
Human Perseverance: Awesome for humans, you can never get enough saving throw bonuses.
Action Surge; Awesome for humans, +3 attack when you really want to hit is pretty important
Improved Init: Everyone loves +4 to init, don't use with quickdraw
Quickdraw: For everyone that can't afford to lose actions at the start of a fight, also +2 init is nice
Armor/Shield Proficiency: Near Necessary
Surprise Knockdown: Really handy if your rogue goes to daggermaster
Wintertouched: Similar to the +damage feats this works well in combination.
Durability: Combines nicely with items that key off of healing surges. A dwarven fighter with decent con can run upwards of 13 healing surges a day which is 13 rounds of 10,20, or 30% resist all with the right armor.(less realistically)
Paragon Tier
Action Recovery: Extra saves = Good
Arcane Reach: Blasts at range = Very good
Armor Spec(scale): For non-dwarves its the only one really useful. The rest are O.K.
Iron Will/Ref/Fort: +2 defence is always good.
Defensive Advantage: Fighter and flanker team up for effective -4 penalty when attacking the flanker. That is pretty massive.
Combat Commander: For a high int/cha warlord to take advantage of their many secondary abilities this one is just icing on the cake. Everyone gets +2-4 more initiative. Its like giving your team improved init without them taking an action.
Dwarven Durability: Not only is +2 healing surge nice, but 2 extra healing surges adds up. Combines nicely with items that are powered by healing surges.(see durability) and effects that let you use healing surges
Evasion: More defensive powers to reduce damage
Mettle: See above
Blood Thirst: For rangers, +2 each attack, not too shabby.
Back to the Wall: Handy for defenders, rangers, anyone who wants more attack, damage and defense.
Heavy Blade Opportunity: Just plain awesome.
Improved Second Wind: Stack up that healing and save your cleric or warlord actions. Better to avoid it, but its not bad.
Lasting Frost: Great for anyone with cold weapons. If you or an ally pick up a cold weapon consider feat swapping into this and/or wintertouched.
Pole-Arm Gamble: Step 1, get a glaive: Step 2, get Heavy Blade Opportunity, Step 3, Get Blade opportunity, Step 4, get combat reflexes. Step 5, make at wills against any enemy that moves adjacent to you (from squares not) at +3 to attack.
Uncanny Dodge: See above, negate Pole-arm Gamble penalty.
Psychic Lock: Really great for bloodmages any anone who does psychic damage
Second Implement: Another encounter power to use, and the masteries are strong. Unfortunately the best combo is hard to use(staff/anything else) since you need two hands to use the staff.
Spell Focus: Very very strong.
Epic:
Arcane Mastery: Got a wizard who saved his action points throughout 3 encounters? Burn one of them and regain a daily wizard power. Really handy for out of combat use to regain utility spells.
x Mastery: Criticals are great, much better than they were in 3.5
Epic Resuranges: Great if you make a lot of rolls, not sure how this will play out. combines well with weapon masteries.
Spell Accuracy: Now the wizard can blast without worrying about where his friends are.
Irrestible Flame: 20 more damage on fire powers is handy.
Multi-class feats:
Rogue multi-class. Its an immediate action +2d6 damage as an encounter power, up to 5d6 later on. Not ever useless.
Wizard Multi-class: One reason only: Opens up the Archmage epic destiny for Warlocks, which can use the powers because they specific arcane spells and not wizard spells.
Any multi-class: If you meet the pre-reqs and would be taking a skill training in the skill, why not get some extra benefits for it?
ED:
Some bad:
Triumphant attack:
why do you people like triumphant attack? its -2 attack and defense on a crit which ends on a save and none of the melee classes have abilities that will keep it on. So you get +2 attack and +2 defense against the monster for 1 or maybe 2 rounds? Epic resurgence is a lot better since you will be making a lot of attack rolls.
Combat Anticipation: Doesn't stack with anything since its feat bonuses and not untyped. Each time you take something like lightning reflexes you diminish its utility. Take shield spec and you get 1/2 the bonus except you get it all the time rather than just against those attack types. Take shield spec, iron will, and great fort and you are ahead of the game, take an armor spec, and the rest of the defenses and combat anticipation has become obsolete.
Last edited:
bardolph
First Post
Actually, they already get two of them for free: Divine Fortune and Turn Undead. Adding a third at the cost of a Feat isn't all that bad, considering that many of them fire off of a Trigger or Minor Action. Any time you end up not using your Deity channel, you can fall back on Divine Fortune.
I'd slightly disagree about retraining these feats. The fact that they give proficiency as well as a damage bonus is still useful for many characters. Especially for Dwarves (allowing a cleric to pick up proficiency with warhammer and maul), less so for Eladrin (who get Longsword anyway).
It's possible to act in the surprise round when the enemy's Stealth check fails to beat your Perception. (Or bluff vs. insight in some circumstances, IIRC.) It's still a surprise round, because your buddy the fighter is surprised.
White-Wolf
First Post
i know their are others, but
Power attack, weapon focus, and the one that stood out for me when i read the books (thinking of ranged ranger) sly hunter.
Power attack, weapon focus, and the one that stood out for me when i read the books (thinking of ranged ranger) sly hunter.
Seeker_of_Truth
First Post
Why is this feat bad ... it looks pretty good to me. A +1 stacking bonus to Init and Insight for the whole party, what's not to like?
