D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

[BookBarbarian]

Naturally, such a thing exists already in DnD history, the elven courtblade.

And like a true nerd, I have things I dislike about the fluff even if mechanically it's exactly what I was describing

 

[DaddyTrash]

It makes 'rapier' a description a player can apply to their weapon, not a class of game mechanics.

I usually condense my weapons table down to the mechanics and then let the player choose to call them whatever they want. Is there a need to have both the 'dagger' and 'dart' on the weapons table? Nope, they are essentially exactly the same. So I just instead list a weapons as a 1d4 Simple piercing weapon (light, finesse) and let the player who selects it define it how they want. What this gets us is more interesting and varied weapons in the character's hands. No one with Simple proficiency ever fights with a sickle because it is only 1d4 slashing and there is an applicable and better 1d6 Simple slashing weapon available. But if someone wants to fight with 'sickles', then they can select the 1d6 Simple slashing weapon (aka 'handaxe') and just call them sickles.

Same with the longsword/rapier situation. There is a single 1d8 Martial weapon (finesse) on my chart that is nominally called the 'longsword'. It is available for the Rogues and Elves (and others with proficiency) who wish to use them. But when they select it, if they want to call it a 'rapier', or 'cutlass', or 'sabre', or 'elven thinblade' or any other name they can come up with... that's up to them. Likewise, you can also select a 1d8 Martial weapon (Versatile 1d10) that is also nominally called a 'longsword' or 'battleaxe', and a player could take it and call it a 'bastard sword', or 'broadsword', or 'hand-and-a-half sword' or 'flail' or 'warhammer' or 'falchion' whatever they want to too. Entirely up to them.

The dart and dagger are very different in terms of game rules. Darts are RANGED thrown weapons. Daggers are MELEE thrown weapons. This means that things like the Archery fighting style applies to darts, but not to daggers, since it requires specifically a ranged weapon, not ranged weapon attack. Also, darts cannot be used in Melee. While I realized thrown weapon fighting as a fighting style was not a thing when you posted this, it does mean that characters who wanted to specialize in thrown weapons could stack more bonuses on a dart's damage than on a dagger, but they'd incur the downside of having to carry a dedicated melee sidearm as a backup.

 

[DaddyTrash]

It makes 'rapier' a description a player can apply to their weapon, not a class of game mechanics.

I usually condense my weapons table down to the mechanics and then let the player choose to call them whatever they want. Is there a need to have both the 'dagger' and 'dart' on the weapons table? Nope, they are essentially exactly the same. So I just instead list a weapons as a 1d4 Simple piercing weapon (light, finesse) and let the player who selects it define it how they want. What this gets us is more interesting and varied weapons in the character's hands. No one with Simple proficiency ever fights with a sickle because it is only 1d4 slashing and there is an applicable and better 1d6 Simple slashing weapon available. But if someone wants to fight with 'sickles', then they can select the 1d6 Simple slashing weapon (aka 'handaxe') and just call them sickles.

Same with the longsword/rapier situation. There is a single 1d8 Martial weapon (finesse) on my chart that is nominally called the 'longsword'. It is available for the Rogues and Elves (and others with proficiency) who wish to use them. But when they select it, if they want to call it a 'rapier', or 'cutlass', or 'sabre', or 'elven thinblade' or any other name they can come up with... that's up to them. Likewise, you can also select a 1d8 Martial weapon (Versatile 1d10) that is also nominally called a 'longsword' or 'battleaxe', and a player could take it and call it a 'bastard sword', or 'broadsword', or 'hand-and-a-half sword' or 'flail' or 'warhammer' or 'falchion' whatever they want to too. Entirely up to them.

The dart and dagger are very different in terms of game rules. Darts are RANGED thrown weapons. Daggers are MELEE thrown weapons. This means that things like the Archery fighting style applies to darts, but not to daggers, since it requires specifically a ranged weapon, not ranged weapon attack. Also, darts cannot be used in Melee. While I realized thrown weapon fighting as a fighting style was not a thing when you posted this, it does mean that characters who wanted to specialize in thrown weapons could stack more bonuses on a dart's damage than on a dagger, but they'd incur the downside of having to carry a dedicated melee sidearm as a backup.

 

[tommybahama]

I usually condense my weapons table down to the mechanics and then let the player choose to call them whatever they want.

Out of curiosity, did you include a finesse weapon with reach other than the whip which gets crappy damage?

Edit:. And that is a simple weapon for non- martial classes?

 

[Charlaquin]

Include lots of magical Longswords in your game and let players figure out whether or not they want to use them.

After trying lots of different house rules, including a completely re-done weapon table, I’ve come to the conclusion that this is the best solution.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Is “Play Dungeon World instead” one of the choices?

 

[ECMO3]

Accept that what was referred to as a "bastard sword" in previous editions has now been renamed "longsword". There never has been a clear definition of different sword types, there's a continuum of swords that met different needs at different points of history.

Ironically a true bastard sword is never meant to be used 2-handed. It is in between what we would call a short sword and a longsword. Meanwhile most actual longswords were meant to be promarily two handed.

 

[ECMO3]

It still leaves me wondering why elves and rogues are training in longswords, seems like a waste of time, especially for rogues.

Maybe elves are just bored with their long lifespans and are looking for a way to add a small extra risk to themselves - hidden elven deathwish

Having an extra proficiency is never a bad thing. There are plenty of elves that use longswords. It is not the go to weapon on a Rogue, but then neither are most of the simple weapons they are proficient in either.

This is as much a problem for staves, handaxes and spears as it is for longswords.

 

[ECMO3]

Epic fail, this was supposed to be a poll , but I got timed out. First poll problems... Is this even fixable?

Poll choices:

1) longswords should be finesse weapons.
2) RIP rapiers: go old school and replace longswords with bastardswords and replace rapiers with longswords. Eliminate rapiers from the game.
3) RIP longswords: replace elven and rogue longsword proficiency with rapier
4) RIP finesse: The whole thing is a mess and dexterity already too OP. Remove damage from dexterity
5) Everything is fine: game balance maintained.
6) I've got a better idea ... post below.

5.

If you give out a lot of magic longswords,your characters, including Rogues, will use them. Maybe not against every foe but if they come across foes they need magic to hit (or need magic or silver and have neither).

 

[S'mon]

Ironically a true bastard sword is never meant to be used 2-handed. It is in between what we would call a short sword and a longsword. Meanwhile most actual longswords were meant to be promarily two handed.

AFAICT they (HEMA, scholars, et al) call a large arming sword with a longer hilt a bastard sword, and it has a longer hilt for better two handed use, while being ok used one handed. What they call a longsword has a similar hilt but is too large for optimal one handed use, though it can be done.

There isn't anything medieval they call a short sword, and even Classical era swords like the gladius aren't that short. There are big daggers like the cinquedea but they're not swords.