D&D 4E The Best Thing from 4E

[cavalier973]

..who turn out to be a secret cabal of Wizards with a stronghold on the Coast of a nameless sea...

"Tysyriann Interlopers on the Nameless Sea".

An adventure for Three to Five characters of Level 15-16

 

[cavalier973]

Even though I've already posted my thoughts on "the best thing in [4E] life", I want to add that I really like essentials.

It's not for everybody; I get that. Core 4e is a culmination of D&D ideas that had been percolating for years, and Essentials is a step back from that bold push forward, but--Pelor's beard!--I really like it's "throwback schtick".

Since 5e came out, I started really delving into the Moldvay/Mentzer basic edition, induced by the pseudo-old school flavoring of Essentials. I even purchased print copies of BE (of BECMI) for my son for his birthday.

So, Essentials expanded my D&D horizons.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Even though I've already posted my thoughts on "the best thing in [4E] life", I want to add that I really like essentials.

It's not for everybody; I get that. Core 4e is a culmination of D&D ideas that had been percolating for years, and Essentials is a step back from that bold push forward, but--Pelor's beard!--I really like it's "throwback schtick".

Since 5e came out, I started really delving into the Moldvay/Mentzer basic edition, induced by the pseudo-old school flavoring of Essentials. I even purchased print copies of BE (of BECMI) for my son for his birthday.

So, Essentials expanded my D&D horizons.

I found Essentials to be interesting and useful, but I think for WotC it was a mistake. Some of the classes, like the Warpriest, hit a fairly good balance between flexibility and simplicity. The problem was it really didn't 'fix' the 4e product line. I have come to the conclusion that 4.5 really was the best answer. It would have clearly explained to people what the current product offering was and how it all fit together, and it would have allowed for making some really needed tweaks to the 4e formula. Like 3.5 it wouldn't have been totally incompatible with existing material, it would just have cleared up a bunch of issues. I know there were a ton of reasons WotC wanted to avoid that route, but what they did with Essentials, predictably, didn't work out at all.

 

[the_redbeard]

I only played 4e for the 1st year or so of it coming out. One of the subsystems that I liked were rituals, but that isn't a choice on the poll. As I haven't followed it, was there a consensus on how the ritual system worked?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I only played 4e for the 1st year or so of it coming out. One of the subsystems that I liked were rituals, but that isn't a choice on the poll. As I haven't followed it, was there a consensus on how the ritual system worked?

Well, as a whole its very cool. There are a lot ways it enhances your game. Like most things it has some modest issues too. There wasn't a really concerted effort to make rituals properly scale, either in effect or cost. This means that some become inordinately cheap at higher levels, and many simply stop being useful at all. Some were also too expensive. Like with a lot of the older edition spells some rituals could also be a little problematic in terms of what you could do with them, were 'spoilers', or entirely GM dependent, but this wasn't a fault of rituals per-se. There were also a few that were pretty much mandatory because they were just so good, though often those were restricted to certain classes.

I once made a wizard that was basically as close as possible to an old 1e-style 'do everything' caster. He relied on a LOT of rituals, and really made them work hard. It was kind of eye-opening, even at level 1 you can do a lot of stuff that was hard for a 1e wizard to pull off (and I had plenty of powers too, picking up every extra utility I could possibly get).

 

[darkbard]

here were also a few that were pretty much mandatory because they were just so good, though often those were restricted to certain classes.

Besides Comrade's Succor, what qualified as such in your estimation?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Besides Comrade's Succor, what qualified as such in your estimation?

That was the main one of course. Some others that fall into the "you will be assumed to have access to this" would be Phantom Steed, Speak With Dead, Raise Dead, Tenser's Floating Disk, Enchant Magic Item, Disenchant Magic Item. Its not that you can't do without them, but any adventure that doesn't properly anticipate their use will run into problems, so they generally become close to mandatory.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) The Gygaxians get a +1 bonus to all basic melee and basic ranged attacks, and to each defense.(snip)

Sorry, but nothing as clear as that could be called Gygaxian....

Anyway, I am sincerely grateful that WotC came along and rescued the D&D brand from the Gygax-, Blume-, and Williams-imposed doom. And, yes, they're all guilty of appalling mismanagement.

Now, back to the topic.

I'm running a Forgotten Realms campaign which is about to change markedly due to the departure of a really key player. It may even lead to the abandonment of this campaign and the beginning of a new campaign. If the new campaign happens, it's going to most likely be a Dark Sun game set in the Heroic Tier.

And here's where the best thing - really, one of many best things - about 4E comes into play: I have everything at my fingertips thanks to DDi (and Masterplan... ahhh, Masterplan, how much I do love thee), as do my players when it comes to building their characters. As the latter years of 2E taught me, having electronic tools is an absolute godsend for a time-poor DM.

 

[JeffB]

Even though I've already posted my thoughts on "the best thing in [4E] life", I want to add that I really like essentials.

It's not for everybody; I get that. Core 4e is a culmination of D&D ideas that had been percolating for years, and Essentials is a step back from that bold push forward, but--Pelor's beard!--I really like it's "throwback schtick".

Since 5e came out, I started really delving into the Moldvay/Mentzer basic edition, induced by the pseudo-old school flavoring of Essentials. I even purchased print copies of BE (of BECMI) for my son for his birthday.

So, Essentials expanded my D&D horizons.

Usually when I am speaking of 4e, I particularly mean Essentials. It hews closer to my grumpy old 70s gamer tastes. I only utilized "core" books or DDI for things like a certain power or stat block.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Even though I've already posted my thoughts on "the best thing in [4E] life", I want to add that I really like essentials.

It's not for everybody; I get that. Core 4e is a culmination of D&D ideas that had been percolating for years, and Essentials is a step back from that bold push forward, but--Pelor's beard!--I really like it's "throwback schtick".(snip)

I actually like the Essential classes especially the knight. But the slayer has also proven its worth in play, as has the thief and the berserker. Heck, even the bladesinger worked in our group.

I found Essentials to be interesting and useful, but I think for WotC it was a mistake. (snip) I know there were a ton of reasons WotC wanted to avoid that route, but what they did with Essentials, predictably, didn't work out at all.

I think Essentials was designed to fail. It was a fake revised edition that sold a few products to keep the brand afloat while 5E was being planned. If it had been meant to succeed, they would have led with a product called a Player's Handbook. That name is vital to D&D. And the book would have been a proper size, not those silly little mini-books.

I still liked Essentials but I would have like to have seen a proper 4.5 edition that incorporated all the errata and included a PHB (and DMG and MM) that I could actually use without having to print out the errata first.

Anyway, to go any further into this means entering spilt milk territory. I'm glad we still have 4E and even more glad that 4E fans ensured we would still have electronic tools no matter what WotC does with DDi.