The C&C poll

[Li Shenron]

Been curious about C&C about a year ago, then read some reviews and concluded it's not for me. It seems that C&C has some nice ideas, but just as many times it takes away from D&D something that I like. Furthermore it's already possible to play 3ed D&D in a "rules-light" fashion without the need for a new book.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm not trashing 3.5, but for me C&C makes the game fun again. We spend more time gaming and less time looking through books. Is it for everyone? No. The rules lawyer in our group misses his stacks of books, but everyone else loves it.

Is that a problem with 3ed or with having too many books?

 

[Shadeydm]

No more dreading to level their characters, .../snip

Ok, well this is a first for me. So your players acutally dreaded levelling thier characters wow. I must admit I have a very hard time believing this, are you sure you aren't embellishing the story a bit there friend? Your players were like oh no another level this sucks everytime they went up?

 

[Imaro]

Ok, well this is a first for me. So your players acutally dreaded levelling thier characters wow. I must admit I have a very hard time believing this, are you sure you aren't embellishing the story a bit there friend? Your players were like oh no another level this sucks everytime they went up?

Honestly, I think I get where he's coming from. It's not the actual "leveling up" but the minutae that must be checked and gone over...save bonuses, new class abilities, spending of skill points, selection of feats, checking pre-requisites, purchasing of equipment, selection of spells, check for synergy bonuses, etc.(all at once at almost every level.)

I think a way to compare it is like this...In Exalted(or Stormbringer for another example) the first time you create a character, it's very front loaded...You have to make alot of choices and selections(and it can take a long time). However after that it's complexity when buying things with XP drops drastically(very rarely will you have enough XP to change alot of things at once. In D&D it's the reverse. Character creation starts (at level 1) simpler than Exalted, but each increase in level is a blanket of numerous changes and decisions that must be performed all at once...and it seems like it gets more complicated as level increases.

Now if all you've ever played is D&D then you have nothing to compare it to, but having played different game systems I definitely see where leveling up could be dreaded as a chore in paperwork.

 

[Uder]

Now if all you've ever played is D&D then you have nothing to compare it to, but having played different game systems I definitely see where leveling up could be dreaded as a chore in paperwork.

Forgive the hyperbole, but for me it's just that 3E character generation... well, it never ends. I've played some games that take 10 minutes to generate a character (brown box D&D, Toon), and some games where it takes hours (Traveller, Rifts, one attempt at Dangerous Journeys). D&D has the longest chargen of any system, because you're still doing it until the campaign ends. The character sheet is almost a game all unto itself.

Ah, I'm tired, so this probably doesn't make any sense. I guess if the choice is between getting there and being there, I like being there.

 

[Dungeon Mastered]

Forgive the hyperbole, but for me it's just that 3E character generation... well, it never ends. I've played some games that take 10 minutes to generate a character (brown box D&D, Toon), and some games where it takes hours (Traveller, Rifts, one attempt at Dangerous Journeys). D&D has the longest chargen of any system, because you're still doing it until the campaign ends. The character sheet is almost a game all unto itself.

Ah, I'm tired, so this probably doesn't make any sense. I guess if the choice is between getting there and being there, I like being there.

One of the main reasons I changed from 3.5 was the frustration caused by character creation. This really intimidated and confused some RPG newbies I tried to incorporate into my game. They were really interested in playing, but got the wrong impression of the hobby due to the character creation and maintenance after leveling. I was told they felt like they were playing an excel spreadsheet. Now I know some people like the complexity of 3.5 including myself for about 90% of the players handbook, but I have found it is sensory overload for new players.

I now use the C&C system as a “base system” and have added various elements of other RPGs very successfully. The simple rule-set is easy to teach to new players and for my play group who may only get together once a month, it is easy to sit down and start playing without lengthy preparation. My prep time as a GM in minimal and now I get to spend more time on the FUN stuff, creating cool content and encounters for the players. RPG systems are Tools to be used to facilitate fun gaming sessions. C&C is a tool that currently makes the most sense for me and my play group to use.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Ok, well this is a first for me. So your players acutally dreaded levelling thier characters wow. I must admit I have a very hard time believing this, are you sure you aren't embellishing the story a bit there friend? Your players were like oh no another level this sucks everytime they went up?

I can see that happening, actually. I used to go through it every time a Rolemaster 2 character levelled... first there'd be the, "woohoo, I've levelled", then there'd be the, "uh, what percentage would I gain if I put another rank in Stalk/Hide?" (with the usual answer, "here's the book!"), then there'd be the groans of frustration and the inevitable request: "Hey, GM, I'm stuck here, could you level my character for me?" (with the usual answer, "no, it's your character")...

Then they'd show up for the next session still at level 13 and say, "I'll level up in time for next week, honest," and at that point I'd know that I was going to have to give in and sit down with my excel spreadsheet and level another damn character again.

I had a couple of players who would give it a go, and then hand it to me "for checking", and since they'd inevitably get something wrong it was more work for me than if I'd just done it myself.

Never again. No more systems with character sheets that come on folded booklets.

In other groups I can definitely see this happening with 3.x as well.

 

[KenSeg]

I really liked Zulygan's post!!

When I play a role-playing game, I do not want to have so many rules that it diverts from my total immersion in the game. I am there to roleplay, not wargame. All of the players in our group have been doing this for well over 20 years and know the basics. We are there to create a group-dynamic story of adventure and glory. Anything that gets in the way of that goal can be cut out in my opinion. We have a basic set of rules to give us all a framework of reference only.

-KenSeg
gaming since 1978

 

[Ottergame]

Staying away from C&C. It's just not what I want in an RPG. Everything I like about RPGs is boiled out, to simple, and to generic.

 

[RichGreen]

Hi,

I bought the C&C Player's Handbook and found it really disappointing, so it's D&D for me!

Cheers


Richard