The C&C poll

[VictorC]

Hi,

I bought the C&C Player's Handbook and found it really disappointing, so it's D&D for me!

Cheers


Richard

Same thing happened to me.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I now use the C&C system as a “base system” and have added various elements of other RPGs very successfully.

This is one of my favorite elements of C&C. My problem is that I'm not always certain I can add in a subsystem without totally rewriting C&C.

For example, let's say that I want to add in psionics, incarnum, or the warlock class to C&C. Can it be done with minimal conversion, or are total rewrites in order?

 

[Jim Hague]

This is one of my favorite elements of C&C. My problem is that I'm not always certain I can add in a subsystem without totally rewriting C&C.

For example, let's say that I want to add in psionics, incarnum, or the warlock class to C&C. Can it be done with minimal conversion, or are total rewrites in order?

It can be done - but there's a fair amount of conversion involved. I'll pro actively disagree with the C&C proponents and say that it's even a daunting amount of work. While C&C is d20-based, it's specifically a reaction against 'd20' as some sort of abstract concept. Ergo, expect either a lot of conversion work or a lot of handwaving.

 

[RFisher]

Ok, well this is a first for me. So your players acutally dreaded levelling thier characters wow. I must admit I have a very hard time believing this, are you sure you aren't embellishing the story a bit there friend? Your players were like oh no another level this sucks everytime they went up?

Well, I've dreaded leveling up when playing 3e at times.

While getting better is usually welcome, actually going through the mechanics & choices of leveling isn't a lot of fun for me. Sometimes it feels like the results don't quite make up for the effort.

Most other games I've play are different in this regard. In classic D&D, levelling takes nigh no time. In point-based systems, progression is spread out into tiny steps, & typically you're only improving one ability at a time. (Saved up enough points to bump skill A! Now to start saving up for a bump to skill B.) Heck, in classic Traveller we got along without progression at all.

Although, when playing 3e these days I tend to do things that make it simpler for myself. e.g. I try to not even consider multiclassing. I typically pick a number of skills equal to my skill points/level & just bump them all one rank every level.

But what really makes me unhappy with leveling is when it comes too fast. There's usually at least one level in every 3e game I've played where I feel like I haven't had time to get used to & enjoy the last level. I know that seems crazy, but I've never claimed to be sane. (^_^)

 

[rkwoodard]

I agree

It can be done - but there's a fair amount of conversion involved. I'll pro actively disagree with the C&C proponents and say that it's even a daunting amount of work. While C&C is d20-based, it's specifically a reaction against 'd20' as some sort of abstract concept. Ergo, expect either a lot of conversion work or a lot of handwaving.

I am a big proponent of C&C, yet I agree adding classes seems to be more difficult than any other conversion.

--Treebore, I thank you for your earlier offer to give me tips, I will take you up on that in the near future--

Now the Castle Keepers Guide comes out this summer, and may have guidelines for building classes, and this may make converting classes into C&C a lot easier.

But lets face it, even within the D&D framework, there is disagreement of the various class philosophies (per day vs. per encounter). If everything else was a snap, that issue alone would cause some difficulty.

RK

 

[Uder]

Now the Castle Keepers Guide comes out this summer

Optimism is good, but I'll believe it when I see it.

If I have one complaint about C&C, it's that they seem to be following 1e AD&D's release schedule; little brown box, two books, a "basic box" and finally (maybe) someday the DM's book.... whenever they get to it.

 

[Treebore]

It can be done - but there's a fair amount of conversion involved. I'll pro actively disagree with the C&C proponents and say that it's even a daunting amount of work. While C&C is d20-based, it's specifically a reaction against 'd20' as some sort of abstract concept. Ergo, expect either a lot of conversion work or a lot of handwaving.

When I convert a class from 3E I build it as a 3E character up to 9th level. Then that is the "class" for C&C. All the feats I selected are class abilities. All the class abiliities are class abilities. HD stays the same. Saves are based on stats, so the player determine Primes when the character is created.

The hardest thing is deciding on an XP progression, because all 3E classes are more powerful than a C&C class is.

I can do it because I have an early copy of "class deconstruction" guidelines which are a guesstimate as to what the actual xp values of the C&C class abilities are. So I am definitely hoping the CKG does address this with official "xp value" guidelines of class powers for the purposes of building custom classes.

So between this document and my own guesstimating I have been happy with XP chart progressions of the 3E classes and PrC's I have adapted to my home game.

Plus, just today, I came up with a set of rules to allow characters to learn to become a spellcaster as they play. So I am looking forward to fleshing that out as well.

 

[Jim Hague]

When I convert a class from 3E I build it as a 3E character up to 9th level. Then that is the "class" for C&C. All the feats I selected are class abilities. All the class abiliities are class abilities. HD stays the same. Saves are based on stats, so the player determine Primes when the character is created.

The hardest thing is deciding on an XP progression, because all 3E classes are more powerful than a C&C class is.

I can do it because I have an early copy of "class deconstruction" guidelines which are a guesstimate as to what the actual xp values of the C&C class abilities are. So I am definitely hoping the CKG does address this with official "xp value" guidelines of class powers for the purposes of building custom classes.

So between this document and my own guesstimating I have been happy with XP chart progressions of the 3E classes and PrC's I have adapted to my home game.

Plus, just today, I came up with a set of rules to allow characters to learn to become a spellcaster as they play. So I am looking forward to fleshing that out as well.

When you get it all done, put a PDF together - make a little cash from the work.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

This is turning into my most popular thread since the IRs.
I must wonder if, one day, I will be doing a B&B poll? Then, an A&A poll?

 

[Treebore]

When you get it all done, put a PDF together - make a little cash from the work.

The only thing I can do that about is the "learn spells from casting them" idea I came up with today. The class deconstruction stuff is already in the works by Troll Lords. I just don't know if its going to be in the CKG or not. I do know who the author behind that likely is, The same guy who is the author fo the M&T and the new "Dungeon Building" book.

We share the same first name, but it isn't me.