D&D 5E The Domains of Dread, listed by the power of their Dark Lord (using their CR)

[Paul Farquhar]

I am not sure what you mean by "canon stat block," but there have been official stats for many of the Dark Lords in previous editions (and of course Strahd in most editions).

And this edition blows them all out of the water.

 

[Faolyn]

CR 1 Dark Lords do sound hella weird
Yeah, not every adventure should be about killing the Dark Lord. But if every other monster in the domain is tougher and half the NPCs could kick the Dark Lord around the block... why are they still in charge?

Don't forget that many Darklords were always pretty weak, even back in the 2e days.

As @Tonguez said, they're not in charge, they're prisoners of the Dark Powers. Who, in turn, give the Darklords plot armor in the form of immortality.

 

[Faolyn]

The OP is not really trying to deduce a true stat block. They are trying to get an idea of the relative strengths of the Dark Lords and see what that could mean for adventures, based on clues in the text of VRGtR.

Honestly, I don't see how. I mean, Ivana and Viktra may be CR 1 or so (probably 2 or 3, once a DM is done statting her out and giving them cool abilities), but they definitely have a lot of very powerful, high CR minions they completely control.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

@Urriak Uruk , not sure why your getting so much back lash, but I find this a fun speculation based on what the clues give you. Thank you. More importantly, it gave me a place to start when I decide to give them stat blocks!

Yeah, I think the reason some folks are unhappy with this thread is that I may have left the (incorrect) implication in my OP that some Domains are only for low levels, some for high levels. Which wasn't really my intent!

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Honestly, I don't see how. I mean, Ivana and Viktra may be CR 1 or so (probably 2 or 3, once a DM is done statting her out and giving them cool abilities), but they definitely have a lot of very powerful, high CR minions they completely control.

So this (and @dave2008 ) are both right on my thoughts. There is an implication that if you use Ivana as an antagonist in Borca, her low CR means you are unlikely to ever meet her directly in combat until you've already beaten her. So in any combats meant against Ivana, you are likely to be facing off against her subordinates. PCs might not even be aware that Ivana is the true mastermind of the plots they are combatting!

This is a different implication than one set by say Strahd in Curse of Strahd, who can of course be fought many times directly across the adventure, as he can only be killed in his castle, and is a formidable foe in most fights.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

And this edition blows them all out of the water.

How?

 

[Urriak Uruk]

You are still trying to "deduce" a true stat block that does not exist.

Several reasons: spy is a baseline. it's easier to take a stat block and make it more powerful by adding stuff. It's also another way of saying "has rogue levels". Assassin is a way of saying "has more rogue levels". How many levels is appropriate depends on the level of the party. The other reason not to use the Assassin stat block is it's best move by far is to stab with a knife. Ivana isn't going to stab you with an knife. She is going to poison you. She probably already has poisoned you.

But most of the time, it doesn't matter. She doesn't have a stat block, so she can do whatever the DM says she can do.

Which is meaningless, since there is no reason why low level party would get to meet her, never mind fight her.

I mean, I agree. This is essentially what I've been trying to write, but either I'm not phrasing it well or folks are trying to pin opinions onto me I don't have.

I guess to quibble (again) on CR, I don't know why you're saying Ivana stats don't matter. If the designers really shared your exact opinion, that Ivana's stats were entirely determined by the DM, they wouldn't have bothered writing "Similar to a Spy" at all (it's easy to omit). The reason it is there should provide a small indication of how the designers expect DMs to use Ivana in adventures.

 

[dave2008]

The dark lords don't have "relative strengths". They are exactly as strong as the plot and party level requires them to be.

Really, does this even need to be said. That is not what the OP is talking about. No need to take the fun out the conversation.

 

[dave2008]

Honestly, I don't see how. I mean, Ivana and Viktra may be CR 1 or so (probably 2 or 3, once a DM is done statting her out and giving them cool abilities), but they definitely have a lot of very powerful, high CR minions they completely control.

That is the whole point!. The OP put forth their idea and you can put forth yours. Personally, I find the idea of a stat block implied by the text interesting and helpful. The OP then took it further as a means to construct a campaign out of the DoD, but I personally don't care about that.

 

[dave2008]

And this edition blows them all out of the water.

What does that even mean? You mentioned "canon," which is an odd fickle thing in D&D. Per "canon" if they didn't change anything (ie no new stat blocks) is the old stat block still "canon?"

I personally don't care about canon, but when I learned the Dark Lords were not given stats in VRGtR I was glad to find that many had been given stats in earlier additions to help me make 5e versions of them. Now with the OP informing me there are hints of what to start with in 5e, I have another piece of information from which to build my stat blocks. EDIT: There is also already product on DMs Guild which provides stats for many of the Dark Lords too. I haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, but when I start my Dark Lord project I might.

IMO, it is helpful fun thread. Not sure why your reaction is to tear it down instead of have fun with it.

 

[Faolyn]

EDIT: There is also already product on DMs Guild which provides stats for many of the Dark Lords too. I haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, but when I start my Dark Lord project I might.

I saw a fanbrew of Saidra on r/unearthedarcana yesterday that seemed very nice, although the formatting was a bit wonky.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I think, just for fun (don't yell at me), I'm going to try and choose what stats are good representations of the Domains that get less attention in the book. I'll start with just five of them!

Forlorn: Tristen ApBlanc
Day: Blood Drinker Vampire. Night: Sword Wraith Commander (CR 8)

Ghastria: Marquis Stezen D'Polarno
Noble (CR 1/8)

G'Henna: Yagno Petrovna
Cult Fanatic (CR 2)

Invidia: Gabrielle Aderre
Acolyte (CR 1/4)

Keening: Tristessa
Banshee (CR 4)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What does that even mean? You mentioned "canon," which is an odd fickle thing in D&D. Per "canon" if they didn't change anything (ie no new stat blocks) is the old stat block still "canon?"

VGR destroys canon for Ravenloft. It says it doesn't exist, that there are multiple versions of the same domain, the same person, with different histories, and that they can change at any time for no reason.

 

[dave2008]

VGR destroys canon for Ravenloft. It says it doesn't exist, that there are multiple versions of the same domain, the same person, with different histories, and that they can change at any time for no reason.

Exactly, there is no real canon. So why are you talking about "canon stat blocks?" This is not something the OP or anyone else is talking about. So why are you talking about it?

Here is your quote that started my question to you:

You haven't really understood. Ivana is not a spy. Or maybe she is. Just like the is no canon explanation for where Azalin is, there is no canon stat block for Ivana (or any other dark lord). "Similar to a spy" is just suggesting where the DM should start if the story they are telling puts the PCs in a position where they might attack that character. The DM can give her any abilities they like, such as Immunity To Charm or Legendary Resistance. Or simply rule that the charm fails and she pretends to be charmed in order to trick the PCs.

You are talking about canon stat blocks, not the OP. No one is suggesting what @Urriak Uruk cam up with is some type of canon except you. Why?

 

[Remathilis]

I personally think Drakov should probably be a warlord (Volo's, CR 12) instead of a knight (MM, CR 3).

The biggest I have with this system was that they only used MM stat blocks, even when better ones like this could exist.

Of course, that also means I can easily use those later stat blocks if I want instead of what they recommend.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The biggest I have with this system was that they only used MM stat blocks, even when better ones like this could exist.

It's policy not to refer to content which isn't in the book or in a core rulebook.

In earlier editions they could have given them a class, but 5e doesn't assign classes to NPCs.

 

[Remathilis]

It's policy not to refer to content which isn't in the book or in a core rulebook.

I get that. And it's a pain since that would mean wasting space reprinting them, but it still would have diversified some of those spies and nobles, for example.

Just means I'll have to do it myself...

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's policy not to refer to content which isn't in the book or in a core rulebook.

They sometimes do in adventures, but then they'll include the stablocks in the appendixes. Tomb of Annihilation had a bunch of monsters from Volo's for example.

 

[Davies]

Unfortunately, there really isn't an NPC stat block that's a great fit for Viktra Mordenheim in any of the books thus far. Anyone have a good suggestion from 3rd party stuff?

 

[Faolyn]

Unfortunately, there really isn't an NPC stat block that's a great fit for Viktra Mordenheim in any of the books thus far. Anyone have a good suggestion from 3rd party stuff?

Do you have Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica? There's the Biomancer (CR 10, with a "Bolstering Life Force" effect that causes people within 30 feet to regain 1d10 hp; you can change that to allies or constructs only, and the spellcasting of a 16th level wizard). You could switch that out for Artificer stuff, if you like.