D&D 5E The "everyone at full fighting ability at 1 hp" conundrum

[Garthanos]

In real life people get this ... adrenal surge that supresses pain and impairment massively till they have time to cool down and feel safe (this has been documented not as nor really a rarity but more of a normality). And so realistic might actually mean. No impairment till after the immediate danger is perceived as gone.

It just occurred to me that tacking that factor on to RuneQuest alone would have greatly increased the effective sense of the heroic on to it. while maintaining the goal of realism, Hmmmmm.

Reality isn't much fond of succumbing to Death Spirals

 

[Kurotowa]

As for the tracking issues, there's a relatively simple way to add to the realism yet not add too much to the bookkeeping that already exists in some other games: some sort of a body-fatigue or wound-vitality points system.

Well sure. I think Star Wars D20 used a system like that. But doesn't the prove the point? Systems like that have existed, in multiple versions over multiple decades, and they've never overtaken good old HP in popularity. Sometimes simplicity and ease of use are important virtues.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Systems like that have existed, in multiple versions over multiple decades, and they've never overtaken good old HP in popularity. Sometimes simplicity and ease of use are important virtues.

Sometimes name recognition and decades of market dominance are important.

 

[darjr]

Naw, it isn’t just that. Hit points are a good mechanic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Naw, it isn’t just that.

Sure, theres also market timing, for instance.

Hit points are a good mechanic.

Not actually saying they're not, just that appealing to the popularity of D&D is in no way evidence that they are.

 

[darjr]

No, I don't think so. That post was about the popularity of HP, not D&D. Though I do see the two are very intertwined. But simple HP persists from game to game, even lots and lots of electronic games use simple HP.

 

[Bigsta]

Final Fantasy 2/4 came out in 1991. The healing system in that game (and nearly every JRPG after that) is the same as the healing system 5e has now.

If one of your party members was reduced to 0 hp, you either cast "Life" (a low level spell) or used a "Phoenix Down" (a 100gp potion) to immediately bring them back to life at full fighting capacity. A stay at the inn would give you full HP and all spells back.

A 27 year old who begins playing 5e today has never lived in a world where 5e's healing system wasn't deeply engrained in the gaming meta. If anything, as of 4e D&D finally caught up to the general RPG standard. 5e's healing system isn't contradictory, it's what most new players grew up with and would expect to see.

And don't give me that TTRPGs and CRPGs can be compared. 5e is nothing more than a combination of Final Fantasy + Diablo + Soulcalibur + Anime + Professional Wrestling with a D&D covering and greater freedom of choice (and that's why I love it).

 

[Kurotowa]

And don't give me that TTRPGs and CRPGs can be compared. 5e is nothing more than a combination of Final Fantasy + Diablo + Soulcalibur + Anime + Professional Wrestling with a D&D covering and greater freedom of choice (and that's why I love it).

Isn't that a closed loop? Final Fantasy 1 was a straight up D&D clone in video game form, down to Monster Manual denizens like the beholder and mind flayer. Diablo might have a less immediately direct lineage, but it's still ultimately a game about going into dungeons to kill monsters for gold and magic weapons, which is the genre D&D pioneered. And a lot of fantasy anime is either directly riffing off D&D (Lodoss War, Slayers, etc) or riffing off things not more than one or two steps removed from D&D.

 

[Garthanos]

Not actually saying they're not

I think there are some solid arguments for it being a damn fine mechanic its biggest flaws do relate to people not "getting" the abstraction so well.

However while there could be more realistic ones (like a saving throw system with afflictions and separate mechanics which allow you to overcome those or auto succeed) I honestly feel for what it does it's pretty damn elegant.

I am full turn around from my own youth response I think they are a solid composite simplification of heroic ability ok mostly defense. (Healing surges acknowledge as that Heroic stuff not just healing pushes it even further which 4e did get around to just not so directly or immediately)

 

[MichaelSomething]

...well, death.

but it'll be a death that won't break their immersion; and isn't that more important??