D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Ok I get it.
It still counts as a use though, so using it to get three attacks on one turn while hasted means 3 of your daily uses (plus your action surge), that is a good Nova if you are hasted and if you have a 16+ Constitution.
Echo Knights aren't busted. They are just versatile with additional options.
That's kinda the problem. The PHB 5e fighter was compromised for people who ended up not playing 5e.
The 5e subclasses for 5e fans are in splat and setting books and have the sunk cost of their fandom's purchases of them holding the base class back.
That's kinda the problem. The PHB 5e fighter was compromised for people who ended up not playing 5e.
The 5e subclasses for 5e fans are in splat and setting books and have the sunk cost of their fandom's purchases of them holding the base class back.
Eldritch Knights are pretty good out of the gate too and because of spells there is a ton of versatility there. Too much to really go through as there are a variety of high intelligence and low intelligence, high strength and low strength, combat and non-combat focused EK builds. Among combat-focused builds there are a variety of options too, including high DPR builds, a blaster that can keep up with a Warlock using Eldritch Blast and a Tank with Bladeward and Warcaster.
From a combat POV the big thing they get early is access to Protection from Evil and Good, Absorb Elements and Shield. These are 3 awesome spells, especially on a class with typically a high AC and a weak Dex and Wisdom saves. PEG is the cat's meow for a fighter with action surge going against an enemy that is going to charm or frighten you (most of which fall into one of the PEG catagories)
If you are a strength build and dumped dex but have a good intelligence they can get a ranged cantrip which will generally be better than throwing weapons. At 3rd and 4th level Booming Blade is pretty darn useful too. It and GFB become great again at 7th level with Warmagic at which point you will be outdamaging most other fighter builds.
The spell slots work really good if you pick up Hex through Fey Touched, or depending on the table through magic initiate Warlock .... although this does clash with War Magic a bit.
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Zardnaar
Legend
I'm aware but the Rune Knight is a lot better at say level 3 for example.
And I specifically said you have to pick specific spells which you gave an example of. I would pick 2/3 and protection from evil may have missed that.
And Booming blade/GFB are on the list of things to pick.
At higher level EK wins hands down eg cast haste and still do two attacks.
I kind of regard level 10+ as mostly theoretical anyway.
I don't know if that is really true. There are some great subclasses in the PHB IMO. Tempest Cleric is pretty awesome, so is Eldrictch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Shadow Monk, Divination and Enchantment Wizards and Vengence Paladins. I am sure there are good Druids, Bads and Barbarians too, but I don't play those often. Those examples might not be the best subclasses but they are all pretty good overall.
I like the variety offered in the other books though too, and there are some much more powerful subclass options there.
Zardnaar
Legend
I don't really get the tempest cleric love. It's always been a bit lackluster to me along with War.
If you want to be a spellcaster go light, melee arcane, nature. Use wisdom in any event.
Also depends if tashas is used.
I was talking specifically about the fighter,
The PHB fighter was designed to appease grognards who wanted fighters to be pure combat. Even the EK had many of its spells locked to evocation and abjuration when self buffing via transmutation and transport via conjuration would be better for combat AND have OOC use.
The mold wasn't broken and developed for actual 5e fans until splats and setting books were made. And even then,nnmagical fighters were barely touched, leaving many archetypes no supported in the manner desired.
I don't agree that Rune Knight is much better at 3rd and 4th level. Even with a low intelligence, being able to use Blade cantrips at level 3, while also having 2 spell slots is pretty effective for a melee fighter.
RK is substantially better at level 5th and 6th level though, I will admit that, and they are more flexible.
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I can't really argue with most of that. I will say though that I think the "nonmagic fighter" or for that matter a non-magic PC is an antiquated design concept as well. When we talk about grognards, I think that needs to be thrown into that bin too.
So I will by your theory that the splatbooks are what the 5E community want from fighters, but I also think the focus on "magical" fighter options is because I think that is what most 5E fans want as well.
I've played a lot of 5E Monks, Fighters and Rogues but I've never had a desire to play one that is non-magical and I think that is pretty common in 55E. As a matter of fact, I don't think I have ever played a character 4th level or higher in 5E that could not cast a spell of some type.
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