James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Honestly, I think player desire for flashy, mystical powers could be solved if we went back to AD&D magic items.
D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
CreamCloud0
Hero
asking as someone who has little to no knowledge of AD&D, care to elaborate on that/the nature of magic items in that edition?
That's the issue.
Many people want to play nonmagical fighters. They choose the PHB options they have with the PHB.
The nonPHB nonmagical options are not popular though.
Why?
Possible because the nonmagical options for Fighters were not designed for 5e fans.
Warpiglet-7
Lord of the depths
Is this based on survey results? (Fighters not popular)?
Previously I heard fighters are most common in play space like D&D beyond.
Not a rhetorical question—-genuinely asking
fluffybunbunkittens
Hero
Fighters have always been popular. In the one edition where they were actually good, they were even more so.
Anyway, the comment was about non-magical subclass options for them.
Warpiglet-7
Lord of the depths
Same as my experience but post I replied to said they are not so I wondered where that came from or what was referenced.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I assume you're referring to 4e? I thought they were quite good in the TSR editions as well.
Not that fighters are unpopular.
The nonPHB nonmagical options are not popular.. in 2020 it was.
- Champion
- Battlemaster
- Eldritch Knight
- Gunslinger
- Samurai
- AA
- Cavalier
- Rune
- Echo
- PDK
- Psi
Outlier is the Samurai. But it's a Samurai.
This really does not show this to be true for two reasons.
The PHB options are the most popular, because the PHB is the most popular book and those subclasses are the most available to use. Many tables do not use other books and in 2020 a lot of gamers were using Adventurers League which used to limit the number of books you were even allowed to use at the table; it was I think PHB and one other book. This is underscored by the fact that Eldritch Knight is third on that list, is not non-magical at all and is in the PHB. I think Champion is the only subclass in the SRD, which is to say it is the only subclass available to every table playing D&D 5E and probably the biggest reason it is the most popular subclass of all of them. Availabilty is the reason those three subclasses are the most popular.
This also does not mean non-magical fighters are actually popular unless you are also looking at races, feats and mutliclass combos of those characters. It means those subclasses are popular, but it does not mean their characters are not magical.
I have seen Battlemasters and Champions and a few Cavaliers on the tables I played, but I can't remember a single non-magical fighter PC in play in 5E beyond level 4. All of those are non-magical class/subclasses but all of those PCs also brought substantial magic to the table from other parts of their character build.
It was your earlier post about what 5E fans want, and your assertion that the original PHB fighters are OSR designs that really brought me to that realization. You do see people playing those "old fashioned" OSR PHB subclasses, but when they play those subclasses, they usually spice them up to be more modern with magic through other options outside of the class and subclass.
Last edited:
The biggest thing is that there were no attunrment limits. There were some classes that limited the number of items you could have, but most could have and use as many as they could carry and wands had 90+ charges when you found them, which means you usually never ran out of charges in play. +5 weapons were about as rare as +3 weapons in 5E. Saving Throw Scaling, particularly on Fighters, made you near immune to most spells, poison, petrification etc if you were able to pick up a ring of protection or other bonus to your saves.
Similar Threads
