The Game for Non-Gamers: (Forked from: Sexism in D&D)

[Ariosto]

The players' power comes from selecting skills, abilities, classes, resources, items, etc. that affect the dice rolls.

Strictly speaking, that is the power only to distinguish one character from another -- and then only when and to the degree that the rolls start close enough to 50% for differences in modifiers to yield different final probabilities.

That is, as you put it, "just as in combat". So, why are so many details applicable in combat -- while in other circumstances simply stating an action (on a par with, "I'll take a swing at him with my sword") is excessive?

"Too Much" Detail is Any Detail That Does Not Interest Me.

(And there are as many "Mes" as there are "Hims" and "Hers" -- plus one.)

One person's "I lay down my wakizashi on my right side, and bow again," is another person's "I take an immediate interrupt with Providential Prorogation of Doom."

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My point is that the random elements in RPGs play to the game part of it. As in, the part that is analogous to the word game in boardgame, card game, and video game.

By playing up the game aspect, you make non-gamers ask: "Why should I play this particular game as opposed to others that are more familiar and/or popular?" You're setting yourself up to compete against something that you can't hope to win against.

However, if you play up the narrative aspects of RPGs, there's really not many other activities that offer that. The market's wide open for leisure activities that allow narrative/creative outlets, at least in comparison to the market for traditional games.

Ah! I see what you're saying.

However, I personally don't see narrative gaming as being inherently incompatible with randomization.

The only way I see this as being a serious consideration is when the discussion is vs. CRPGs. CRPGs, obviously, use computers to handle all that math and randomization so that the story itself is almost all the player has to deal with.

When confronted with that kind of transparency, its valid for a non-gamer to ask why play an RPG with all that dice rolling when you can play a CRPG that handles all of that stuff...and faster.

The answer is, of course, that a traditional RPG's boundaries are much more protean than those of a CRPG. As long as the DM allows it, the campaign can expand ad infinitum. The scope of a traditional RPG's narrative is potentially much broader than that of a CRPG.

And often for less $$$ than a CRPG over time.

 

[Ariosto]

In any RPG/STG, dice rolls should be reserved for cases in which the results have "narrative significance"! One purpose of "GM fiat" is to distinguish such cases, so the game doesn't bog down in dice rolls for quotidian things.

FATE normally uses 4 dice, but I think the difference is not huge. With 3 dice, you have only 7 possible results (from -3 to +3) -- and 70% of them are -1, 0 or +1.

The flip side of a rating of +5 succeeding 96% of the time is a rating of +0 having only a 4% chance. If you start with a 37% chance, then a +4 bonus makes it 100% (versus 35% to 55% with d20).

Any distinction beyond the 7 point range is irrelevant to a binary (pass/fail) outcome. Interest can be added with gradations of result -- which means those "details" some folks detest.

 

[Ariosto]

I have been considering "the game for non-gamers" as something not identified with D&D. Trying to change D&D into that seems to me dumping the baby with the bath water!

The difference between "Do I succeed at X?" and "Do I have narrative authority to succeed at X?" is moot unless one needs narrative authority to fail at X.

The really significant question is whether the probability is going to depend on circumstances in the imagined world or be dissociated and thus from that perspective arbitrary.

Dissociated mechanics play hob with role-playing, but they are not (or at least an extreme is not) necessary to a "story-telling" game. In other words, there is no reason a narrative cannot be governed by internally consistent rules. Actually, consistency and other aspects of verisimilitude are generally regarded as virtues in fiction!