The more I thhink about that the funnier it gets. Hey, at least he was anonymous...at least in the beginning.
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D&D 5E The good, bad, and ugly of the Wish spell
- Thread starter Winterfell
- Start date
Fishing_Minigame
First Post
So, after he appeared in a horrible pile of unmentionable belongings...did the other players play along automatically and act like they didn't know who he was?
neobolts
Explorer
The player was informed that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY includes his own character. Sewage covered amnesiac hoarder that was a stranger to both the party and the townspeople.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
By the book, the 5th edition Wish is single-handedly the most limited version of Wish to have ever existed. Before that, Wish was literally the most powerful spell because it had no limits, and 5th edition puts a serious kibosh on what you can do with it.
That said: generally "Wish" has three outcomes:
1: Compromise. The "perfect" result where a player wishes for something cool, but something reasonable and is willing to accept perhaps not the perfect incarnation of what they want, but an incarnation that makes them happy and doesn't break the game. This can be anything from an existing item, a minor stat boost, wishing to get some hard-to-reach item or travel to some exotic location, perhaps even revive an NPC that was regrettably lost in some previous part of the game. It's a situation where the DM doesn't need to screw with the player, and the player isn't trying to wreck the game. Works for everyone involved.
2: Anything. A situation where the DM is totally agreeable to anything the player wants (for whatever reason) and the player asks for the moon and the sun combined into their own personal universe filled with busty elf chicks and and endless supply of beer. This can be fun. It can sometimes work out for the game, but generally it comes back to bite everyone in the butt.
3: Trick E. DMson. A situation where the player asks for something, regardless of if it is reasonable or not and the DM takes it upon themselves to play mischievous genie. It can be fun, but more often than not it leads to resentment, because the DM purposefully gives the player what the player doesn't want in order to strip them of the power granted them by the wish spell. Lets say the player asks for a Flaming Sword, not an unreasonable request and a great chance for situation 1, but instead the DM decides to screw with the player and gives them a sentient homosexual sword (playing on the word "flaming"). The sword makes obnoxious gay-sex related jokes has a lisp that would make Queer-Eye shudder and is generally annoying until the player gets rid of it. Or lets say, the player wishes for immortality (again, not an unreasonable request given the Wish spell) and the DM turns him into stone (ala the Flesh to Stone spell). Very classic magical turnabout, but it just doesn't work in a cooperative gaming environment.
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As a DM, I ride somewhere between "anything" and "compromise". I'll generally give my players what they want and use their own desires to further the game. Wish to be a dragon? Now powerful dragon-hunters are out to kill you and the party! Wish for a flaming sword? Matter cannot be created or destroyed: your flaming sword is the very one that magically vanished from the hands of a secretive monastary and now ninjas are out to get you! Wish to bring back a dead loved one? You've disturbed the fabric of the universe and there is a price to be paid to some god for this live re-given!
When players ask to be monsters: and they have, I generally limit them to a CR equal to their level or the spell level, whichever is higher. 9th level covers the majority of monsters that won't shatter the game, and allows a few types of dragons, vampires, driders, werewolves and other fun stuff.
Personally if the player didn't jump on asking for something right away, I'd discuss with them outside of the game what they'd like to use their wish for. Compromise is always the best route.
That said: generally "Wish" has three outcomes:
1: Compromise. The "perfect" result where a player wishes for something cool, but something reasonable and is willing to accept perhaps not the perfect incarnation of what they want, but an incarnation that makes them happy and doesn't break the game. This can be anything from an existing item, a minor stat boost, wishing to get some hard-to-reach item or travel to some exotic location, perhaps even revive an NPC that was regrettably lost in some previous part of the game. It's a situation where the DM doesn't need to screw with the player, and the player isn't trying to wreck the game. Works for everyone involved.
2: Anything. A situation where the DM is totally agreeable to anything the player wants (for whatever reason) and the player asks for the moon and the sun combined into their own personal universe filled with busty elf chicks and and endless supply of beer. This can be fun. It can sometimes work out for the game, but generally it comes back to bite everyone in the butt.
3: Trick E. DMson. A situation where the player asks for something, regardless of if it is reasonable or not and the DM takes it upon themselves to play mischievous genie. It can be fun, but more often than not it leads to resentment, because the DM purposefully gives the player what the player doesn't want in order to strip them of the power granted them by the wish spell. Lets say the player asks for a Flaming Sword, not an unreasonable request and a great chance for situation 1, but instead the DM decides to screw with the player and gives them a sentient homosexual sword (playing on the word "flaming"). The sword makes obnoxious gay-sex related jokes has a lisp that would make Queer-Eye shudder and is generally annoying until the player gets rid of it. Or lets say, the player wishes for immortality (again, not an unreasonable request given the Wish spell) and the DM turns him into stone (ala the Flesh to Stone spell). Very classic magical turnabout, but it just doesn't work in a cooperative gaming environment.
---
As a DM, I ride somewhere between "anything" and "compromise". I'll generally give my players what they want and use their own desires to further the game. Wish to be a dragon? Now powerful dragon-hunters are out to kill you and the party! Wish for a flaming sword? Matter cannot be created or destroyed: your flaming sword is the very one that magically vanished from the hands of a secretive monastary and now ninjas are out to get you! Wish to bring back a dead loved one? You've disturbed the fabric of the universe and there is a price to be paid to some god for this live re-given!
When players ask to be monsters: and they have, I generally limit them to a CR equal to their level or the spell level, whichever is higher. 9th level covers the majority of monsters that won't shatter the game, and allows a few types of dragons, vampires, driders, werewolves and other fun stuff.
Personally if the player didn't jump on asking for something right away, I'd discuss with them outside of the game what they'd like to use their wish for. Compromise is always the best route.
I agree with shidaku that the 5th edition wish is a bit ...forgive the pun... wishy-washy.
I love neobolts' example because it didn't exactly screw the player over. It got him out of his predicament, but gave him a new, and rather interesting, predicament, while being hilariously twisted at the same time.
I love neobolts' example because it didn't exactly screw the player over. It got him out of his predicament, but gave him a new, and rather interesting, predicament, while being hilariously twisted at the same time.
KingAcarius
First Post
The beauty of words
In the campaign that has now evolved into a different type of campaign recently, we ended things with a tournament of sorts. The winner of the tournament would get a wish spell. Granted this campaign really started off as the most basic Mission you can come up with, but we push that way past its limits and extended it for longer than it should have. But my characters greatest ambition was to become a God or demigod. He started off as a human sorcerer criminal. But then recently changed to a human cleric with the war domain. So when the time came for the wish to be given to the winner, it was my characters time to shine. I worded the spell as lawyerly as humanly possible. I was following the god of fire and revolution Sargonnis. The exact wording of the spell was I wish that my God Sargonnis would come down and personally give me a Divine Spark. And I rolled pretty high so my DM had no choice but to say that the Avatar of my God came down and presented me with a Divine spark from him. As long as you word it correctly there should be no reason why there would be any misconceptions or technicality is that the DM could impose on your wish. But since I had ascended to be a demigod I didn't get any of the physical drawbacks of the wish spell.
In the campaign that has now evolved into a different type of campaign recently, we ended things with a tournament of sorts. The winner of the tournament would get a wish spell. Granted this campaign really started off as the most basic Mission you can come up with, but we push that way past its limits and extended it for longer than it should have. But my characters greatest ambition was to become a God or demigod. He started off as a human sorcerer criminal. But then recently changed to a human cleric with the war domain. So when the time came for the wish to be given to the winner, it was my characters time to shine. I worded the spell as lawyerly as humanly possible. I was following the god of fire and revolution Sargonnis. The exact wording of the spell was I wish that my God Sargonnis would come down and personally give me a Divine Spark. And I rolled pretty high so my DM had no choice but to say that the Avatar of my God came down and presented me with a Divine spark from him. As long as you word it correctly there should be no reason why there would be any misconceptions or technicality is that the DM could impose on your wish. But since I had ascended to be a demigod I didn't get any of the physical drawbacks of the wish spell.
My general thoughts on DMing a wish:
1. First and foremost: My goal is not to screw over the player. I don't want the wish to be an adversarial thing where the player and I try to out-lawyer each other, and the PC becomes unplayable if I win, and the campaign is wrecked if the player wins. That's a lose-lose situation.
2. If the player wishes for something reasonable - transporting the party across the world, getting rid of the "boss" for a single adventure, basically just a short cut to something that could be accomplished by mundane means - then it just happens. This is what I think of as a "little wish." No fuss, no muss, move on.
3. If the player wishes for something crazy and huge - a "big wish" - then I will call a break to the game, and sit down and think about how best to respond. My goal is to give the player what s/he wants, but with balancing factors that will keep it from wrecking the campaign. Ideally, the balancing factors would themselves create fun challenges.
4. When creating balancing factors for a "big wish," make sure that they don't screw over the other PCs. They didn't sign up for this, they shouldn't find themselves saddled with nasty consequences for someone else's wish. Of course, if the whole party participates in deciding what to wish for, and they choose something that will benefit them all, this isn't a problem.
5. If the player tries a "lawyer's wish," where they present me with six pages of clauses and limitations to try and hedge out any negative consequences... I will again call a break to the game, but I'll use that break to pull the player aside and point out that this is setting up the lose-lose situation described in #1. If the player insists on it, fine: If they want to try and beat the Devil, then the Devil is what they have to beat. I'll look for any loophole to exploit and use it. If I can't find one, the PC is transported to a parallel universe where the wish is granted in all its glory, and the rest of the party continues in this universe where that PC is gone forever. Congratulations, your PC beat the Devil and attained godhood, now make a new character.
1. First and foremost: My goal is not to screw over the player. I don't want the wish to be an adversarial thing where the player and I try to out-lawyer each other, and the PC becomes unplayable if I win, and the campaign is wrecked if the player wins. That's a lose-lose situation.
2. If the player wishes for something reasonable - transporting the party across the world, getting rid of the "boss" for a single adventure, basically just a short cut to something that could be accomplished by mundane means - then it just happens. This is what I think of as a "little wish." No fuss, no muss, move on.
3. If the player wishes for something crazy and huge - a "big wish" - then I will call a break to the game, and sit down and think about how best to respond. My goal is to give the player what s/he wants, but with balancing factors that will keep it from wrecking the campaign. Ideally, the balancing factors would themselves create fun challenges.
4. When creating balancing factors for a "big wish," make sure that they don't screw over the other PCs. They didn't sign up for this, they shouldn't find themselves saddled with nasty consequences for someone else's wish. Of course, if the whole party participates in deciding what to wish for, and they choose something that will benefit them all, this isn't a problem.
5. If the player tries a "lawyer's wish," where they present me with six pages of clauses and limitations to try and hedge out any negative consequences... I will again call a break to the game, but I'll use that break to pull the player aside and point out that this is setting up the lose-lose situation described in #1. If the player insists on it, fine: If they want to try and beat the Devil, then the Devil is what they have to beat. I'll look for any loophole to exploit and use it. If I can't find one, the PC is transported to a parallel universe where the wish is granted in all its glory, and the rest of the party continues in this universe where that PC is gone forever. Congratulations, your PC beat the Devil and attained godhood, now make a new character.
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At the end of my recent campaign the party was going toe to toe with asmodeus.
They new that his rod was a huge pain, and that it always returned unerringly to his hand. So they did the following.
1) disarmed the rod
2) wished for his severed hand from the future (where they had beaten him of course)
3) stuck the rod to it with sovereign glue.
And that took care of the rod!
They new that his rod was a huge pain, and that it always returned unerringly to his hand. So they did the following.
1) disarmed the rod
2) wished for his severed hand from the future (where they had beaten him of course)
3) stuck the rod to it with sovereign glue.
And that took care of the rod!
CapnZapp
Legend
Remember that out of the three penalties for using Wish to do more than merely replicate a spell, two of them are completely trivial while one is completely overwhelming.
That is, at level 17 (or thereabouts) getting necrotic damage is nothing to worry about. Worst case, the wizard kills himself and needs to get ressurrected. No biggie. If at low level, then simply treat as "no more spells today" which is a cheap price to pay.
Also, getting Strength 3 is nothing a high-level party can't cope with (or outright ignore).
It's the 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again that is the killer.
So anytime the spell is used to ask for something even remotedly reasonable (something that doesn't break your campaign "like a dry reed" to quote an earlier post) this is the penalty I'd lift.
The damage and strength penalty I fully expect the characters to handle, and handle easily.
That is, at level 17 (or thereabouts) getting necrotic damage is nothing to worry about. Worst case, the wizard kills himself and needs to get ressurrected. No biggie. If at low level, then simply treat as "no more spells today" which is a cheap price to pay.
Also, getting Strength 3 is nothing a high-level party can't cope with (or outright ignore).
It's the 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again that is the killer.
So anytime the spell is used to ask for something even remotedly reasonable (something that doesn't break your campaign "like a dry reed" to quote an earlier post) this is the penalty I'd lift.
The damage and strength penalty I fully expect the characters to handle, and handle easily.
