D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

Fundamentally, I agree because I couldn't care less about the word -- railroading. I don't need it to know how I DM or to figure out how others do it.

But dang if that one word hasn't given people conniptions. It has been used to describe literally tens of thousands of words of context -- an entire novel's worth -- DIFFERENTLY. Some think it means completely different things than others. Like, what does it really matter??

If that word vanished from the lexicon tomorrow, it would have absolutely zero effect on D&D, TTRPGs or GM'ing.
Well, 25 years on this site has taught me that people LOVE to argue semantics. :)

But the game mode(s) being described by the term "railroading" are important to acknowledge because they arise pretty naturally from the play processes of really common TTRPGs like D&D.

And you can argue that the two big TTRPG innovations of the '00s that still shape the current market, specifically the rise of narrative games and the creation of the OSR, were both done as a reaction to the popular games of the late '90s all trending towards "railroad-y", metaplot and setting heavy play. Despite being very different kinds of games, what narrative games and OSR-principled games have in common is a desire to have the game events proceed from a resolution process, rather than be shaped with an end goal in mind.
 

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Then if they genuinely are completely unprepared, they should answer honestly:

"I don't actually have anything prepared for doing this, and I'm not up to improvising it tonight, so this will need to be the end of the adventure proper for this week. I'm happy handling downtime activities, or any bookkeeping we've been neglecting, but actually running the game will have to wait for next week."

I don't see that, in any way, as railroading. It is the GM being honest that their skills are not up to the task right this very instant, but that with a little bit of prep work--presumably in the area of "NPCs that might appear, general information about the area, a couple landmarks plus ideas for more directions to explore, etc."--they'll be able to improvise for whatever gaps remain.
I'm jumping to the depths of a deep thread here, but this sort of stuff is why having a good collection of random tables by terrain type to fall back on when your players inevitably go in a direction you didn't plan for is such a wonderful thing. Even the blandest "4d4 Kobolds" -> straight to combat can easily have life breathed into it by the PCs interacting and the immediate setting of "swamp". And of course, there is a universe of more ornate stuff out there: reaction rolls/"what are the monsters doing", random landmarks, collections of mini-lairs, encounter tables with subtly implied settings, hand crafted tables that tie back into the factions and conflicts of your campaign, weird stuff that instantly gets your imagination going, etc. But even the basic ones can do just fine. You can just give your game over to the dice, let the machine lay the tracks as you go, not much more improvisation necessary than your average module text. More than enough to fill out the rest of a session - it can really feel seamless - and provide enough to fill in the details between sessions. Perhaps not as intricate as a carefully crafted dungeon or murder mystery, but not everything needs to be that, and its almost certainly much more fun than just ending the session and revealing the hard edges of your shared world with the players, as if it were a video game.

To me it just seems like a fundamental DMing tool that (imo) bizarrely seems to get less emphasis, in terms of content and pedagogy, with each new release. Give the people random tables! Give them advice on how to use them! Give them advice on how to craft them to imply and simulate your setting, and hook them into further adventures! Let both the DM and the players be surprised and delighted by this wonderful and infinite medium! Luckily there is so much great stuff out there to use already, but it really seems like it should be part of everyone's "DMing 101". Sandbox play really doesn't need to require hours and hours of intricate worldbuilding and prep.


On the main subject of the thread - I think there is a great place to railroad, and that is at the start of campaign. You can put your PCs in all sorts of fun situations that would be awkward to engineer organically. Throw your party on a prison ship without having to engineer their arrest. Have the king be dead with your PCs holding the bloody dagger. This is one reason to love one shots - they let you railroad (an inclination which often contains within a noble impulse to bring PCs into contact with an interesting scenario the DM has planned), but sans any dampening of player agency. And of course, you can do this in an ongoing campaign world, just start up a new B Team party and put them in the middle of a weird Rube Goldberg-esque scenario - maybe its effects will ripple out to the A Team later on.
 


"I don't actually have anything prepared for doing this, and I'm not up to improvising it tonight, so this will need to be the end of the adventure proper for this week. I'm happy handling downtime activities, or any bookkeeping we've been neglecting, but actually running the game will have to wait for next week."

I don't see that, in any way, as railroading. It is the GM being honest that their skills are not up to the task right this very instant, but that with a little bit of prep work--presumably in the area of "NPCs that might appear, general information about the area, a couple landmarks plus ideas for more directions to explore, etc."--they'll be able to improvise for whatever gaps remain.
Yep. Once or twice a year my players do something that's so far out in left field that I'm just left a bit dumbfounded. When that happens I let them know that I can continue on, but if we stop and I have time to think about things over the week, it will be much better.

Every time that has happened they have opted to stop and let me think things through. Then we pull out a board game or three and finish the night out still having a blast.
 

This is literally the second time people have repeated my own argument back to me.

""get off at any time" is functionally an agreement to stop playing. There isn't necessarily anything available for that session if you decide you don't want to do the tomb anymore"

No one ever said this was railroading. I'm merely pointing out why quitting in the middle of a linear adventure usually doesn't happen.
Again you conflate once in a while with every time. First it was your insistence that railroading is any influence at all, being the same as a total negation of player agency. Now it's if there is a situation the DM can't handle you stop, being the same as always stopping if the players deviate.

These things aren't even close to being the same.
 
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Then if they genuinely are completely unprepared, they should answer honestly:

"I don't actually have anything prepared for doing this, and I'm not up to improvising it tonight, so this will need to be the end of the adventure proper for this week. I'm happy handling downtime activities, or any bookkeeping we've been neglecting, but actually running the game will have to wait for next week."

I don't see that, in any way, as railroading. It is the GM being honest that their skills are not up to the task right this very instant, but that with a little bit of prep work--presumably in the area of "NPCs that might appear, general information about the area, a couple landmarks plus ideas for more directions to explore, etc."--they'll be able to improvise for whatever gaps remain.
It does, like I said, ruin the game.

If your the type of DM that is fine with players doing that randomly......then have fun. Other DMs don't have as much fun letting the players ruin the game on a whim.

And, note the "sorry guys" has a bad ring to it. Far too many players will think of that person as a Bad DM, if they do that. A lot of players see any sort of weakness as being a bad DM.

It is also the classic: the players force or trick the DM into doing improv as they think the game will be better somehow or they just want to annoy the DM.
 


Are you saying that people are routinely misunderstanding you? Strange. Perhaps if you expanded upon your thoughts and wrote longer comments it would enhance their clarity?

Thank you again for your opinion. I have been I think patient and jocular with your japes about my prolix writing, even making fun of myself as I am doing now. And I have tried to take your advice seriously, because I am aware of my limitations.

I checked. The post in question is 416 words long and according to readability metrics has a Flesch score that indicates it is plain English and has a Fry Readability Grade Level of 9th grade.

I realize that you prefaced your comments by saying you are a super-intelligent person who would understand any concept if it was presented to you in simple plain English, but in this case from an objective standard using the commonly recognized measurements, and taking into account that you don't seem to realize that pronouns require antecedents, perhaps go back to high school?
 

what narrative games and OSR-principled games have in common is a desire to have the game events proceed from a resolution process, rather than be shaped with an end goal in mind.

This probably deserves a fork to a new thread, but that is not the goal of narrative games. And in fact, that's opposite the goal of narrative games. Narrative games arose out of the big plot heavy story telling attempts of the 1990s that were still tied to game mechanics with traditional events that proceed from the resolution process (like in OSR games that are leaning back into that) and the frustration with people like Ron Edwards that these process heavy resolution procedures never reliably (or at all) delivered the narratives they were promising. The idea then was to make new mechanics that resolved not according to a process that depended on the internal elements of the fiction, but rather on elements of the meta such as "what is the goal of this scene". The typical example of a rule of this type is the metarule in Toon that said, "If it is funny, it works." Narrative games basically take what trad games would call "railroading" as a desirable thing, and instead of trying to achieve player agency through unbiased mechanics they try to achieve player agency by giving them narrative currency to control the event outcomes - essentially parceling out narrative force rather than giving it all to the GM and hoping he will be unbiased.
 
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