D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[Maxperson]

What do you hope to achieve by this comment?

Because I was trying to meet you in the middle and reach some kind of understanding with my last comment.

I'm really not sure what middle ground there is. He literally told me that his definition and mine are identical, despite his position being any influence or omission of information at all is railroading, and it doesn't have to be a total loss of choice, and me saying that it has to be a total removal of the players' agency, negating their choices to force them down the rails.

Somehow light influence is identical to total negation.

 

[Maxperson]

So in other words you are going to "disagree" and then repeat back to me what I just said to you: "get off at any time" is functionally an agreement to stop playing. There isn't necessarily anything available for that session if you decide you don't want to do the tomb anymore"?

Why on Earth would that be? They still need to travel through the wilderness to get back to anywhere to do whatever else they want to do, and that takes time. Often more than a session. Just improvise a bit of travel and maybe have an encounter in the woods. There's no reason to stop the game session just because the PCs decided the tomb was too dangerous and left.

 

[Maxperson]

Fundamentally, I agree because I couldn't care less about the word -- railroading. I don't need it to know how I DM or to figure out how others do it.

But dang if that one word hasn't given people conniptions. It has been used to describe literally tens of thousands of words of context -- an entire novel's worth -- DIFFERENTLY. Some think it means completely different things than others. Like, what does it really matter??

If that word vanished from the lexicon tomorrow, it would have absolutely zero effect on D&D, TRRPGs or GM'ing.

I mean, if the words railroad and railroading disappeared tomorrow, it would probably affect RPGs like Boot Hill, Steampunk games that have trains, etc.

 

[kermit4karate]

I mean, if the words railroad and railroading disappeared tomorrow, it would probably affect RPGs like Boot Hill, Steampunk games that have trains, etc.

HAAAA! Oh, that was good. I walked into that one.

 

[Celebrim]

Why on Earth would that be? They still need to travel through the wilderness to get back to anywhere to do whatever else they want to do, and that takes time. Often more than a session. Just improvise a bit of travel and maybe have an encounter in the woods. There's no reason to stop the game session just because the PCs decided the tomb was too dangerous and left.

Because not every GM is ready to improvise something entirely different than what they had prepared for the session. And the Tomb was just an example. If you are ready the improvise the journey back through the swamp, well then good for you. But the general example of a GM unable to improvise on the fly whatever players suddenly come up with after they have signaled, they are jumping here and then going another way still holds. Fifteen-year-old me would have probably been floored and struggled with a lot of that, for example.

 

[Maxperson]

Because not every GM is ready to improvise something entirely different than what they had prepared for the session. And the Tomb was just an example. If you are ready the improvise the journey back through the swamp, well then good for you. But the general example of a GM unable to improvise on the fly whatever players suddenly come up with after they have signaled, they are jumping here and then going another way still holds. Fifteen-year-old me would have probably been floored and struggled with a lot of that, for example.

With some simple overland travel? Even 13 year old me would have been able to handle that on the fly. Describe some nature scenes as the party travels, have an encounter or two, and the evening is done.

This isn't like having to improvise an entire king's castle, with different personalities and goals.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Because not every GM is ready to improvise something entirely different than what they had prepared for the session. And the Tomb was just an example. If you are ready the improvise the journey back through the swamp, well then good for you. But the general example of a GM unable to improvise on the fly whatever players suddenly come up with after they have signaled, they are jumping here and then going another way still holds. Fifteen-year-old me would have probably been floored and struggled with a lot of that, for example.

Then if they genuinely are completely unprepared, they should answer honestly:

"I don't actually have anything prepared for doing this, and I'm not up to improvising it tonight, so this will need to be the end of the adventure proper for this week. I'm happy handling downtime activities, or any bookkeeping we've been neglecting, but actually running the game will have to wait for next week."

I don't see that, in any way, as railroading. It is the GM being honest that their skills are not up to the task right this very instant, but that with a little bit of prep work--presumably in the area of "NPCs that might appear, general information about the area, a couple landmarks plus ideas for more directions to explore, etc."--they'll be able to improvise for whatever gaps remain.

Otherwise, that would mean that if the GM ever calls a session early because they're feeling unwell, they're railroading their players. Or if the GM decides not to run a session because one player can't make it, and they don't want to proceed without that person, that's now railroading. Or if the GM decides to run a one-shot side story focusing on the three present players because two people can't make it for a couple weeks, that too would be railroading.

Any definition of "railroading" that would include these activities is, as far as I'm concerned, worse than useless. That is, it is actively harmful to the TTRPG community.

 

[Celebrim]

Then if they genuinely are completely unprepared, they should answer honestly:

"I don't actually have anything prepared for doing this, and I'm not up to improvising it tonight, so this will need to be the end of the adventure proper for this week. I'm happy handling downtime activities, or any bookkeeping we've been neglecting, but actually running the game will have to wait for next week."

I don't see that, in any way, as railroading.

This is literally the second time people have repeated my own argument back to me.

""get off at any time" is functionally an agreement to stop playing. There isn't necessarily anything available for that session if you decide you don't want to do the tomb anymore"

No one ever said this was railroading. I'm merely pointing out why quitting in the middle of a linear adventure usually doesn't happen.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This is literally the second time people have repeated my own argument back to me.

Perhaps, then, there has been a breakdown in communication, if you believe you are arguing for A, and multiple different people are interpreting you as arguing against A.

 

[kermit4karate]

This is literally the second time people have repeated my own argument back to me.

Are you saying that people are routinely misunderstanding you? Strange. Perhaps if you expanded upon your thoughts and wrote longer comments it would enhance their clarity?