D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[TwoSix]

Isn't this a general D&D thread though?

You're welcome to report thread drift to a moderator if you feel the purpose of a thread has been violated, of course.

 

[KYRON45]

You're welcome to report thread drift to a moderator if you feel the purpose of a thread has been violated, of course.

I made a comment in a D&D thread about how i feel D&D should be played.
What did i drift from and where am I drifting to?

 

[kermit4karate]

"Story over rules adherence" isn't something I would associate with narrativist play, as that kind of phrasing has an association (to me) with the GM shaping outcomes based on what they feel should happen.

Narrativist play is intended that all outcomes are ultimately determined by the outcomes from the resolution methods; nothing should be "fudged".

From my understanding, a core tenet is to "put the story/premise you’re addressing first; treat rules as tools."

In fact, I've gathered that one could simply ignore a rule entirely if a player were, for instance, to be momentarily enraptured in a particularly eloquent bit of roleplaying, creating "good stuff," so to speak. I see narrativism as encouraging them to continue spinning the yarn and building the story even if it meant ignoring a rule they'd otherwise be subject to but one that would break the player's flow.

Isn't that basically the same as the DM deferring to a player to continue roleplaying because they've got a good thing going?

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think the reason they get dragged along with it for folks who come from other, non-narrative-game perspectives is that these innovations generally came to their attention only through narrative games like AW, 13A, etc. So if they're in a narrative game, they must be narrative mechanics, right?

Though I should note some degree of that well predates that. Though not entirely freeform (they're binned in categories) the specifics of what Disadvantages are and some skills goes all the way back to the Hero System, and I don't know that most people would consider that a narrative game even though it has more narrative elements than a lot of trad games.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That is definitely not a sentiment most anyone who is a fan of Narrativist play would agree with. The most central principle is something along the lines of "be a curious explorer of the fiction" or "keep the story feral". The basic idea is that the GM sets the scene but once the scene is set we are all playing to find out what happens. No one has an agenda for how it plays out.

I'm not sure, from my understanding of GNS principals (which is admittedly not super-extensive since I think its definitions get progressively more borked once you get outside narr) that's a sentiment that would sit well with any of the three wings; its certainly not something that serves gamism, and the only reason I can see it applying to sim is to paper over systemic flaws.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I made a comment in a D&D thread about how i feel D&D should be played.
What did i drift from and where am I drifting to?

I expect @TwoSix was saying that if you thought their comment was inappropriate thread drift, you could report them.

 

[KYRON45]

I expect @TwoSix was saying that if you thought their comment was inappropriate thread drift, you could report them.

That seems like a petty thing to do.
I didn't even know it was a thing that could be done.
Play the game the way you like....that's what I was saying.

 

[TwoSix]

From my understanding, a core tenet is to "put the story/premise you’re addressing first; treat rules as tools."

In fact, I've gathered that one could simply ignore a rule entirely if a player were, for instance, to be momentarily enraptured in a particularly eloquent bit of roleplaying, creating "good stuff," so to speak. I see narrativism as encouraging them to continue spinning the yarn and building the story even if it meant ignoring a rule they'd otherwise be subject to but one that would break the player's flow.

Isn't that basically the same as the DM deferring to a player to continue roleplaying because they've got a good thing going?

That would be more about encouraging thespian play; narrativist play does not prioritize thespian-style play at all (and it can be argued that it actually disincentivizes it.)

Prioritizing thespianism, generally, is much more of a concern for games of a neotrad bent (like 5e, especially in its "Critical Role"-style incarnations).

 

[TwoSix]

I'm not sure, from my understanding of GNS principals (which is admittedly not super-extensive since I think its definitions get progressively more borked once you get outside narr) that's a sentiment that would sit well with any of the three wings; its certainly not something that serves gamism, and the only reason I can see it applying to sim is to paper over systemic flaws.

I think the issue is that sim play, especially in its "storyline play", adventure path mode, incentivizes bypassing resolution methods in order to keep the story "on track".

 

[kermit4karate]

That would be more about encouraging thespian play; narrativist play does not prioritize thespian-style play at all (and it can be argued that it actually disincentivizes it.)

Prioritizing thespianism, generally, is much more of a concern for games of a neotrad bent (like 5e, especially in its "Critical Role"-style incarnations).

That's just one too many "isms" for me. Now we're drawing a firm distinction between narrativism and thespianism?? How about masochism? -- because that's how this seems to me.