D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[KYRON45]

I think the issue is that sim play, especially in its "storyline play", adventure path mode, incentivizes bypassing resolution methods in order to keep the story "on track".

What happens when playstyles cross paths? Do you just shut down the game?

 

[TwoSix]

That's just one too many "isms" for me. Now we're drawing a firm distinction between narrativism and thespianism?? How about masochism? -- because that's how this seems to me.

Don't you run multi-billion dollar enterprise systems? I'm sure some 10th grade words ain't gonna hurt ya.

 

[TwoSix]

What happens when playstyles cross paths? Do you just shut down the game?

I don't. These discussions are always about understanding how different game systems work, and what best practices are to get the best out of a system and a specific table.

 

[kermit4karate]

Don't you run multi-billion dollar enterprise systems? I'm sure some 10th grade words ain't gonna hurt ya.

I do, and yes, big words do hurt me. I don't needlessly overcomplicate things in my professional life because it's difficult enough as it is. By the same token, I also try to avoid overcomplicating things in my hobbies as well.

 

[kermit4karate]

I don't. These discussions are always about understanding how different game systems work, and what best practices are to get the best out of a system and a specific table.

Truthfully, most of these discussions don't do that. These are primarily ego stroking and self-soothing.

 

[TwoSix]

Truthfully, most of these discussions don't do that. These are primarily ego stroking and self-soothing.

Fair enough. For me, the past 15 years of discussion here have helped me to try multiple new systems at my tables, and identify what practices lead to the best table experiences.

Both my DMing and playing is better for the discussions I've had here.

 

[bloodtide]

Then don't play with them?

I don't need to prove myself to a group of players. Either they like how I DM, and the game works, or they don't like it and the game fails.

Sure would be great if players were honest when you meet them.....but you must often find this out the hard way.

A lot of D&D play has a competitive dimension to it:

And, sadly, a lot of players think any RPG is "them against the DM!" This player lurks on the side of the table ready to scream as soon as they 'think' they see the DM make a mistake. And they just love the soft DM that does make a lot of mistakes, so they can demand "compensation". And the soft DM will always give in.

That is definitely not a sentiment most anyone who is a fan of Narrativist play would agree with. The most central principle is something along the lines of "be a curious explorer of the fiction" or "keep the story feral". The basic idea is that the GM sets the scene but once the scene is set we are all playing to find out what happens. No one has an agenda for how it plays out.

This always confuses me. This sounds like nothing happens in the game. Though you would say things do happen. But how?

How does a story plot work with no "agenda". Or are you just saying by "agenda" there is no DM sitting back and saying "this is my game and your just player pawns in it...muhhahahaha!"

 

[Crimson Longinus]

From my understanding, a core tenet is to "put the story/premise you’re addressing first; treat rules as tools."

In fact, I've gathered that one could simply ignore a rule entirely if a player were, for instance, to be momentarily enraptured in a particularly eloquent bit of roleplaying, creating "good stuff," so to speak. I see narrativism as encouraging them to continue spinning the yarn and building the story even if it meant ignoring a rule they'd otherwise be subject to but one that would break the player's flow.

Isn't that basically the same as the DM deferring to a player to continue roleplaying because they've got a good thing going?

One might think that due the name "narrativism" but it is not true. Narrativism very much expects you to follow the rules, though the rules might be more geared towards crating interesting conflicts and twists, rather than simulating the fictional reality of the world.

But I also am not sure that derailing yet another thread into endless GNS debate is particularity good use of anyone's time...
Probably inevitable at this point though!

 

[Thomas Shey]

That seems like a petty thing to do.
I didn't even know it was a thing that could be done.
Play the game the way you like....that's what I was saying.

How sensetive people are to threaddrift--varies considerably.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think the issue is that sim play, especially in its "storyline play", adventure path mode, incentivizes bypassing resolution methods in order to keep the story "on track".

Well, that gets into the whole issue that I think lumping process sim and genre emulation together was badly aligned from the start.