D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[Maxperson]

A typical adventure module assumes the players won't play the adventure. And sadly this is both common and true.

No such assumption is made. If you think an assumption like that is happening, you can quote it directly from a module for me so I can see the language making that assumption.

The module just has to be written from the perspective of actually being undertaken, which is very different from assuming players won't play the adventure.

As I said in my post, 99% of the time the players are going to search the wagon anyway.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

A typical adventure module assumes the players won't play the adventure. And sadly this is both common and true.

[[Citation needed.]]

As some say, but not all.

You can find someone to say anything you want. Whether or not someone says something is hardly a mark of its truth. There's someone who says that the moon is made of green cheese. Are you more inclined to believe that that is so as a result?

As a DM that demands a lot of role playing (the acting kind), it really does not matter if the players do it good or bad. Sure good acting is great, but even bad acting is a thousand times better then the player just playing themselves as the character and saying mechanical rule things like a robot.

You were going quite well here until you descended into insulting people again. "Playing yourself as the character" is a perfectly valid approach to roleplay--and it does not, in any way, require "saying mechanical rule things like a robot". Far from it, in fact--playing a character that is pretty close to your own self makes it much easier to roleplay authentically, especially for inexperienced players.

To star with, I very much tell players to only only role play character they can role play. If you don't have the ability, then don't do it. Stay in your Lane.

And thus lock them down into never actually learning how. Sounds like a recipe for frustrated players and a GM who thinks players don't care about things. Not that I can really claim credit for such a prediction--you've explicitly said both things are true nearly all the time with your games. A self-fulfilling prophecy, actively manufacturing the conditions under which players will act out, get hammered down, and then nope out of there because you've given them zero reasons to believe you give two $#!+$ about them enjoying any part of the experience.

For the few, rare players that want to work at it and become better, I'm more then happy to work with them and teach them how to role play and act.

They aren't few and they aren't rare.

You just need to be less hostile to players. They need a reason to try. Otherwise, they won't. It's a simple as that. You create the very conditions which produce the results you then complain about.

I give rewards for role playing, and this helps encourage players to role play, but also role play their ability scores.

Now this I find surprising. Doesn't that conflict with the idea of "Hard Fun"? You're giving players rewards for doing something anyone could do.

 

[bloodtide]

You were going quite well here until you descended into insulting people again. "Playing yourself as the character" is a perfectly valid approach to roleplay--and it does not, in any way, require "saying mechanical rule things like a robot". Far from it, in fact--playing a character that is pretty close to your own self makes it much easier to roleplay authentically, especially for inexperienced players.

Playing a fictional character as the player themselves is not ideal for most RPGs. Having a elf warlock with the with the personality of a Circle K clerk does not really work for good role playing.

Unless your playing a fictional character of yourself, it is not great to role play yourself.

And thus lock them down into never actually learning how. Sounds like a recipe for frustrated players and a GM who thinks players don't care about things. Not that I can really claim credit for such a prediction--you've explicitly said both things are true nearly all the time with your games. A self-fulfilling prophecy, actively manufacturing the conditions under which players will act out, get hammered down, and then nope out of there because you've given them zero reasons to believe you give two $#!+$ about them enjoying any part of the experience.

Never learning how? Did you skip the part where I typed I was willing to teach them?

You just need to be less hostile to players. They need a reason to try. Otherwise, they won't. It's a simple as that. You create the very conditions which produce the results you then complain about.

This would make a good thread....

Now this I find surprising. Doesn't that conflict with the idea of "Hard Fun"? You're giving players rewards for doing something anyone could do.

I give rewards for doing a lot of good things, basically being a good player.

No such assumption is made. If you think an assumption like that is happening, you can quote it directly from a module for me so I can see the language making that assumption.

I don't really play this game. Sure I can find a module that starts with something like "the PCs are lost in the swamp and encounter the Ruins (Area 1)", but it seems pointless. You will just say that is the "wrong" module.

 

[kermit4karate]

Playing a fictional character as the player themselves is not ideal for most RPGs. Having a elf warlock with the with the personality of a Circle K clerk does not really work for good role playing.

Unless your playing a fictional character of yourself, it is not great to role play yourself.


Never learning how? Did you skip the part where I typed I was willing to teach them?


This would make a good thread....

I give rewards for doing a lot of good things, basically being a good player.


I don't really play this game. Sure I can find a module that starts with something like "the PCs are lost in the swamp and encounter the Ruins (Area 1)", but it seems pointless. You will just say that is the "wrong" module.

 

[kermit4karate]

If you aren't making them go, it's not railroading.

Aaaaand there's your zinger right there. Try as some might (will), it's very tough to intelligently refute that. Attempts to do so reveal more about the commenter than the subject matter.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't really play this game. Sure I can find a module that starts with something like "the PCs are lost in the swamp and encounter the Ruins (Area 1)", but it seems pointless. You will just say that is the "wrong" module.

Nah. You can't find it, because it's not what modules are about. They make no assumption whatsoever about the players not engaging. They are simply written with the assumption that the module will be played, so everything in it is geared towards the module going forward.

99% of players are going to search that wagon. Not searching isn't nearly as common as you're trying to make it out to be.

 

[kermit4karate]

Nah. You can't find it, because it's not what modules are about. They make no assumption whatsoever about the players not engaging. They are simply written with the assumption that the module will be played, so everything in it is geared towards the module going forward.

99% of players are going to search that wagon. Not searching isn't nearly as common as you're trying to make it out to be.

The key is to not even mention the wagon, because once you mention the wagon, we are on! Get outta my $*%@# way, y'all! I'm heading straight for that wagon!!!

 

[Maxperson]

The key is to not even mention the wagon, because once you mention the wagon, we are on! Get outta my $*%@# way, y'all! I'm heading straight for that wagon!!!

It's also interesting, which influences the PCs to check it out. Railroading!! You can only avoid railroading by not narrating anything. No world. No PCs. Nothing. It wouldn't be a horrible game to play in, but the players would have full agency!

 

[kermit4karate]

It's also interesting, which influences the PCs to check it out. Railroading!! You can only avoid railroading by not narrating anything. No world. No PCs. Nothing. It wouldn't be a horrible game to play in, but the players would have full agency!

It's tough to make any conclusive, definitive statements about railroading or much of anything here without it causing a battle because there are so many profoundly different definitions and strong opinions (mine included). Some folks define "railroading" simply, with very clearcut boundaries on the term; others define it similarly, but still differently enough to cause confusion; others define it completely differently but throw in their lot with others they actually kinda disagree with but they've formed an alliance for whatever reason; others just refuse to ever concede a point about anything ever; others only want to massage their ego by repeatedly taking their emotional adversaries out of context.

It's all very Shakespearean in its dysfunction!

 

[DinoInDisguise]

It's tough to make any conclusive, definitive statements about railroading or much of anything here without it causing a battle because there are so many profoundly different definitions and strong opinions (mine included). Some folks define "railroading" simply, with very clearcut boundaries on the term; others define it similarly, but still differently enough to cause confusion; others define it completely differently but throw in their lot with others they actually kinda disagree with but they've formed an alliance for whatever reason; others just refuse to ever concede a point about anything ever; others only want to massage their ego by repeatedly taking their emotional adversaries out of context.

It's all very Shakespearean in its dysfunction!

I see you’ve made yourself at home here, and even met the locals. Charming lot, aren’t they?