D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[pemerton]

Matthew Mercer's D&D games in Critical Role are too railroady for you.

I've not watched more than a few minutes of Critical Role. But as best I understand it, from how I've seen it described, the answer is yes.

 

[kermit4karate]

Fair enough. I get it now. Matthew Mercer's D&D games in Critical Role are too railroady for you. Understood.

Straw man. You're taking a reasonable claim (DMs and players are partners) and spinning it in an exaggerated, hostile way.

You would never do that!

No, my response and yours are absolutely not the same things. You truly must believe that Mercer's D&D games are too railroady for you because I've repeatedly described my style as like his (I do prefer a bit more action, but in terms of treating and working with my players, same). I try to run my games, and I feel that most DMs also do, the same way Matt does. Matt, IMO, is an excellent DM.

So, if you don't think Mercer is a railroady DM, then you wouldn't think I am either. In fact, you wouldn't logically think most DMs are.

See we can clear all this up right now. In terms of railroady-ness, what do you think of Matt Mercer as a DM?

 

[soviet]

No, my response and yours are absolutely not the same things. You truly must believe that Mercer's D&D games are too railroady for you because I've repeatedly described my style as like his (I do prefer a bit more action, but in terms of treating and working with my players, same). I try to run my games, and I feel that most DMs also do, the same way Matt does. Matt, IMO, is an excellent DM.

So, if you don't think Mercer is a railroady DM, then you wouldn't think I am either. In fact, you wouldn't logically think most DMs are.

See we can clear all this up right now. In terms of railroady-ness, what do you think of Matt Mercer as a DM?

I like your bossiness, I can see how you came to run a billion dollar company.

I've never seen even a second of Critical Role or any other podcast game.

PS I think you messed up the quotes, you have me saying what you said. Easily done, multiquoting is weird.

 

[kermit4karate]

I like your bossiness, I can see how you came to run a billion dollar company.

Someone's getting fussy.

I've never seen even a second of Critical Role or any other podcast game.

Perhaps you should. Then maybe you wouldn't have such a bizarre view of D&D DMs.

PS I think you messed up the quotes, you have me saying what you said. Easily done, multiquoting is weird.

Noted. I'll try harder.

 

[soviet]

Perhaps you should. Then maybe you wouldn't have such a bizarre view of D&D DMs.

What view do you think I have expressed?

 

[Campbell]

My experience from playing in other GMs games and what I hear from most people in my circles and see online are that most people play in fairly linear games. I also have experienced that a lot of players assume the GM is supposed to provide them with a story/adventure and have trouble coming up with firm motivations for their characters. This isn't really D&D specific - it's pretty much hobby wide outside of a few subcultures.

When I have watched Critical Role or Adventure Zone the players seem very passive by my standards and seem to be reading the GM for what they should do next. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does not appeal to me outside of convention play.

 

[TwoSix]

Fair enough. I get it now. Matthew Mercer's D&D games in Critical Role are too railroady for you. Understood.

I’m sure the players enjoy them, but the way they’ve been described to me, I don’t think would really be what I’m looking for.

 

[kermit4karate]

What view do you think I have expressed?

How about when I said...

"Colleague" and "partner" far more accurately reflect the GM-player relationship in a good game, IMO, which applies to most D&D games.

And you said...

Ah yes, I definitely consider myself a colleague and partner of someone when they decide the entire premise of what we do and have a complete veto over all my declarations and even whether the rules we have nominally agreed to remain in force at any given moment. Very collegial.

You sound very upset about something, like you've been burned in some way by a bad experience with a DM?

 

[pemerton]

My experience from playing in other GMs games and what I hear from most people in my circles and see online are that most people play in fairly linear games. I also have experienced that a lot of players assume the GM is supposed to provide them with a story/adventure and have trouble coming up with firm motivations for their characters. This isn't really D&D specific - it's pretty much hobby wide outside of a few subcultures.

I would add to this - at least back in the day (many days ago!), I found that when players (especially new players) did try to come up with motivations for their PCs, the GMs would tend to ignore them, or run roughshod over them. At worst, those sorts of players were characterised as "problem players" because they did not just expect the GM to provide a story/adventure that they would follow.

The same idea is found in the current iteration of the D&D rules, under the heading "Respect for the DM":

The Social Contract of Adventures
You must provide reasonably appealing reasons for characters to undertake the adventures you prepare. In exchange, the players should go along with those hooks. It’s OK for your players to give you some pushback on why their characters should want to do what you’re asking them to do, but it’s not OK for them to invalidate the hard work you’ve done preparing the adventure by willfully going in a different direction.

If you feel like you’re keeping up your end of the bargain but your players aren’t, have a conversation with them away from the gaming table. Try to understand what hooks would motivate their characters, and make sure the players understand the work you put into preparing adventures for them.​

Based on what I read on these forums, the paragraphs I've just quoted seem to be pretty widely understood as a good way to approach RPGing. They involve the GM deciding what the main scenes are that will be presented and what is at stake in thos scenes.

 

[kermit4karate]

My experience from playing in other GMs games and what I hear from most people in my circles and see online are that most people play in fairly linear games. I also have experienced that a lot of players assume the GM is supposed to provide them with a story/adventure and have trouble coming up with firm motivations for their characters. This isn't really D&D specific - it's pretty much hobby wide outside of a few subcultures.

When I have watched Critical Role or Adventure Zone the players seem very passive by my standards and seem to be reading the GM for what they should do next. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does not appeal to me outside of convention play.

I thank and applaud you for giving a simple, clear answer that instantly puts our differences into perspective.