D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[pemerton]

When I have watched Critical Role or Adventure Zone the players seem very passive by my standards and seem to be reading the GM for what they should do next. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does not appeal to me outside of convention play.

It's a long time since I've been to a convention (that was also "back in the day"), but the best convention games I played allowed the players to inject a judgement or opinion about resolution at the moment of crisis.

I think there's an important distinction between that sort of set-up and a "storytime" set-up, that I don't see discussed very often.

 

[gban007]

If we can't agree that most DMs run the game the "correct" way, the way it was intended, and that that way is through partnership and cooperation between DMs and players to make the game fun, then we aren't going to agree on anything.

I know know it is in quotes, but I think there are multiple correct ways to play the game, albeit i think DnD does have a default in terms of being DM driven, and only a few incorrect.

I agree that there are few bad DMs.

Ultimately, I think there are 3 general scenarios:

1. The DM and players are in alignment on how want to play, whether DM driven or more player authored, whether sandbox or adventure path, whether middle ages or modern, whether races limited or not
When all in agreement and play goes as agreed, everyone happy, outside of potential capability shortfalls of participants.
2. DM and players arent in agreement - something has to give, and I tend to favour it being the players having to give ultimately if they want DM to run game, as DM running game. Ultimately if no compromise or giving in as such possible, then game can't continue.
3. DM and players are nominally in agreement, but in play not. E.g. DM says will be sandbox and players can choose to do what they want, but in practice DM keeps saying no. Or player says they are eager to play a pirate based game, but then keeps trying to push to go inland to set up camp near a mountain or the like. This is where I think incorrect play comes about, as a participant is not being true to what agreed to.
And ultimately I think 3 is rare, or at least I hope so

 

[Umbran]

Do you promise you're being 100% sincere right now?

Mod Note:

"I will not believe you unless you pinkie swear on your mother's grave," is incredibly insulting.

And it isn't like their swearing means anything unless you trust them in the first place, which you obviously don't.

Believe them, or not. If you don't trust them to be sincere, try this thing we call disengaging - it works wonders.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I'm fine continuing this discussion if we can move past repeating earlier points. From what I've seen, railroading in D&D is rare and doesn't constitute a systemic problem. If you have data that could move the discussion beyond anecdotes, I'd love to see it.

If you have proof that it is essentially ignorable, I'd love to see it.

Otherwise, requests for "proof" are irrelevant, time-wasting, and an effort to conquer the discussion through "you didn't jump through the hurdles I invented, therefore I win".

 

[bloodtide]

My experience from playing in other GMs games and what I hear from most people in my circles and see online are that most people play in fairly linear games. I also have experienced that a lot of players assume the GM is supposed to provide them with a story/adventure and have trouble coming up with firm motivations for their characters. This isn't really D&D specific - it's pretty much hobby wide outside of a few subcultures.

Agreed.

I would add to this - at least back in the day (many days ago!), I found that when players (especially new players) did try to come up with motivations for their PCs, the GMs would tend to ignore them, or run roughshod over them. At worst, those sorts of players were characterised as "problem players" because they did not just expect the GM to provide a story/adventure that they would follow.

Agree with this too.

The classic player horror story here is the silly revenge background. Five players get together to play a group game, and the DM has an adventure ready. Then Problem Player says "my family was killed by orc Bob, I must go and find and kill orc Bob!". And this player will refuse to do anything else and even try disrupt or ruin the game so they can say "Ok, now can I go kill orc Bob?"