D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[AnotherGuy]

"Hobby friends" would be a good descriptor of the two groups this happened to where all the players were people I knew beforehand. Strangers for the rest. So...yeah. Let's just say I have seen a consistent pattern (broken only by Hussar!) of GMs who did not handle this sort of thing well, at all. (Well, I guess technically Hussar could still follow the pattern if we get a TPK, since we haven't had one...but I really really doubt he would. He's been very supportive.)

I think it is important to remember that mistakes do get made and hopefully the groups/GMs learn from them and handle things better in the future. I'm not the same GM I was 30 years ago, 20 years ago even 5 years ago.
You can offer advice and encouragement so that the group/GM handle a similar situation with a little more wisdom into the future.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Level 1 or 2 for most, level 3 for one. Other than with Hussar's group, I have never seen a 5e game that started out at level 1 and actually reached level 4--ever. TPKs, gross GM misbehavior, group just losing interest and jumping ship, or other similar issues have always killed it before level 4 could happen.

As noted, I am aware that the levelling guidelines functionally say "reach level 2 at the end of the first session, level 3 at the end of the third, and roughly +1 every four sessions therefater". Hussar's group is literally the only one that has ever followed anything like that pace. All of the others, it's taken at least three sessions to reach level 2. Only one--the one that actually hit 8 weeks--has reached level 3. None have had the opportunity to reach 4, so I couldn't say how long that would take, but if the pattern holds...we'd be lucky to level up in several months.

No group that has started at a higher level has lasted long enough to gain another, in my experience. (Again, Hussar being the sole exception, though that was only because I joined late; everyone else had started at 1st.)

I have to admit I find your D&D experience bizarre.
And to be clear I'm not blaming you, it is just not what I would expect - even with strangers or hobby friends.

 

[Scott Christian]

I think that's basically the point - a TPK doesn't have to kill a campaign - there are lots of plausible outs for this that let a game keep going, but in @EzekielRaiden 's experience, TPKS do kill campaigns. I'll attest to that too - I've seen it happen. I've also seen it not happen after a campaign, but I'd agree that it's possible - likely, even, from my experience.

I agree. One of my favorite campaigns was one we were TPKed. Our new characters were set 50 years into the future - and man, was it grim. The DM showed us that failing had consequences. Our old characters and any related NPC in their backstories were all tragically seen through the new characters. (Basically, the dragon that we were trying to stop had overrun everything. Common trope, but still fun.)

 

[Scott Christian]

Level 1 or 2 for most, level 3 for one. Other than with Hussar's group, I have never seen a 5e game that started out at level 1 and actually reached level 4--ever.

That is odd. I've seen both, but most of the ones I've seen start at level 1. Just goes to show how we all have different experiences.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That is odd. I've seen both, but most of the ones I've seen start at level 1. Just goes to show how we all have different experiences.

I think my words may have made it unclear.

Nearly all 5e games I've played have started at level 1. With the exception of Hussar's group, literally 100% of those games have failed to reach level 4.

I have never seen a 5e game that (a) started out at level 1 and (b) actually reached level 4.

I have seen 5e games that did reach level 4--they just didn't start at level 1. Specifically, I've had one that started at level 5 and another that started at 6, I think? Can't remember, that was a PbP game.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If the campaign has a "save the world" premise, and the PCs all die, then it seems to me that the world hasn't been saved!

Bringing in the second string, in the way that was being talked about, suggests that the whole thing doesn't relate to the PCs in any particular fashion. It's the GM's story, not the players'.

Eh, there's nothing automatically that says that the first group of PCs is necessarily the only one. I commented myself there's some potential logic problems with where this second group was while the first was handling the problem, but I'm not sure the situation has to only refer to that first set of PCs to not be a railroad; it just means the setup is a situation, not a story per se.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In my decades of playing RPGs, this has happened once, (aside some horror style scenarios where “everyone dies horribly in the end” is the point,) and it was at the very end of the campaign at the final confrontation where one PC decided to join the enemy. It might have happened in some games we played as kids and I just don’t remember. But it definitely is not common and your experience seems utterly bizarre to me.

There's always variations here, though my experiences are closer to yours than to Ezekiel's.

 

[loverdrive]

Re: TPKs

I think the most straighforward solution is to just "reload" the game instead of ending it. There's no inherent virtue in always keep the narrative going in one smooth line, and people tend to already have an understanding of how it works and how to separate abstract game mechanics from the diegesis.

If you reaaaally need an in-universe justification, it's fantasy we are talking about, there are eldritch gods of time, deals with the devils and Tower Principles, it's pretty trivial to establish one.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson audited the thread and it was found wanting.

I'm getting caught up!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Re: TPKs

I think the most straighforward solution is to just "reload" the game instead of ending it. There's no inherent virtue in always keep the narrative going in one smooth line, and people tend to already have an understanding of how it works and how to separate abstract game mechanics from the diegesis.

If you reaaaally need an in-universe justification, it's fantasy we are talking about, there are eldritch gods of time, deals with the devils and Tower Principles, it's pretty trivial to establish one.

That's an utterly terrible idea. It totally destroys any tension caused by dangerous situations.