Thomas Shey
Legend
When done chronically, this speaks volumes.
D&D General The Great Railroad Thread
- Thread starter bloodtide
- Start date
When done chronically, this speaks volumes.
Wait, player agency is a Railroad? You lost me.
No? Was something I typed made you think that? I would never do that. To me, players that give up are choosing to leave my game. I have no problem watching them go.
My example from a couple of pages ago was there is a demand that players must always be allowed to whatever they want. If I made the Rescue Princess Adventure and the players were like "nah, DM we don't want to do it. Haha you wasted your time making the adventure for nothing!". And if the players then wanted to go to the Cavers of Wealth, I'd say right back "oh, looks like the Caves of Wealth were just a rumor and don't exist, so your characters can't go there. Haha!"
Kill the princess? Maybe... Chances are this game would end fast. If it did not for some reason...like say the players paid me to run a game for a set number of hours....then yes I would send plenty of bounty hunting assassins after the PCs.
But the "railroad" part is not sending the bounty hunting assassins.....but to the players point of view, as they act like blithering fools or worse, that "no matter what they do they can't avoid the bounty hunting assassins. Of course the players "great dumb plan" is "ok we each buy a cloak and wear it and sneak out of the city on the main road after dark". Amazingly the bounty hunting assassins are ready for this utterly stupid attempt to get away. Of course, the players will just whine "RailRoad!"
Forcing players on the quest is what Railroading is all about. I do this 24/7.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Well, then I misunderstood something you said a while back. Disregard.
5. For example, midway through the game, the villian shows his face to gloat. One of the players casts a dimensional lock spell to prevent all teleportation, and another casts a forcecage, and a fast character runs over to keep an eye on things… and the villian is gone…. Somehow. Even the dm doesn't know how, but gosh darn the players weren't supposed to catch him until act.
Even the DM does not know how……was, players say silly things sometimes. The DM always knows….and if they did not know, they could just make it up and it becomes the game reality.
This is a bit of the other side of the coin from the PCs killing NPCs. This is letting NPC get away. A lot of the keeping NPCs alive suggestions apply here too. For example, NPCs should avoid walking up to powerful, violent PCs always. In the example the PCs have some high level magic. To be a foe of the PCs at that level the NPC should have some way to do something like project an illusion of themselves.
The average NPC will think of and plan an escape route, just in case. While some really low ability score people won’t think of this sort of thing, it is really basic. Most animals are smart enough to have more then one entrance/exit to a lair. So any NPC that feels there might be danger or a risk will have an escape plan or escape route.
Real life even is full of examples of people who were doing things shady or even illegal that have all sorts of ways to escape getting caught.
Fiction is full of this too. Plenty of shows with villains always have them escaping at the end of the episode.
Just for mundane things there are hidden doors, trap doors, secret passages, hidden rooms and all sorts of such things. NPCs in the game world can use them all. When you add in magic (or technology) you can really do some fun stuff.
Think Outside the Box A lot of games have things like teleporting that can be used to get away, and at the same time such games also have things like ‘block teleporting’. For Simple Game this is it: page 11 has the ability, page 12 has the counter. If the villain thinks the PCs might even have a chance to know the spell dimensional anchor, then they would be smart to pick a magical escape that does not involve teleportation.
For example, 3.5E has a wonderful spell Aquatic Escape that turns you into a tiny fish. It is a great spell that can be used to escape…hence the name. It is well worth putting in 5E.
There is a trove of things out there, but this is also were you might just want to Add to the Game. Make some rings, gloves, vests, or whatever of escape. Something with the effect of “allows escape from nonmagical ropes, handcuffs, or similar bindings” is a good start. Be creative.
Even the DM does not know how……was, players say silly things sometimes. The DM always knows….and if they did not know, they could just make it up and it becomes the game reality.
This is a bit of the other side of the coin from the PCs killing NPCs. This is letting NPC get away. A lot of the keeping NPCs alive suggestions apply here too. For example, NPCs should avoid walking up to powerful, violent PCs always. In the example the PCs have some high level magic. To be a foe of the PCs at that level the NPC should have some way to do something like project an illusion of themselves.
The average NPC will think of and plan an escape route, just in case. While some really low ability score people won’t think of this sort of thing, it is really basic. Most animals are smart enough to have more then one entrance/exit to a lair. So any NPC that feels there might be danger or a risk will have an escape plan or escape route.
Real life even is full of examples of people who were doing things shady or even illegal that have all sorts of ways to escape getting caught.
Fiction is full of this too. Plenty of shows with villains always have them escaping at the end of the episode.
Just for mundane things there are hidden doors, trap doors, secret passages, hidden rooms and all sorts of such things. NPCs in the game world can use them all. When you add in magic (or technology) you can really do some fun stuff.
Think Outside the Box A lot of games have things like teleporting that can be used to get away, and at the same time such games also have things like ‘block teleporting’. For Simple Game this is it: page 11 has the ability, page 12 has the counter. If the villain thinks the PCs might even have a chance to know the spell dimensional anchor, then they would be smart to pick a magical escape that does not involve teleportation.
For example, 3.5E has a wonderful spell Aquatic Escape that turns you into a tiny fish. It is a great spell that can be used to escape…hence the name. It is well worth putting in 5E.
There is a trove of things out there, but this is also were you might just want to Add to the Game. Make some rings, gloves, vests, or whatever of escape. Something with the effect of “allows escape from nonmagical ropes, handcuffs, or similar bindings” is a good start. Be creative.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Your hatred is showing again.
hawkeyefan
Legend
For many folks, artful railroading is no better than clumsy railroading.
It’s the railroading itself that is the issue… not how well it’s done.
loverdrive
your favorite gm's favorite gm (She/Her)
Does it? Must I also seek council when picking the system, when introducing NPCs or when designing a new random table?
Do players even want to concern themselves with design decisions, or do they want to just play the game?
loverdrive
your favorite gm's favorite gm (She/Her)
Soooo... GM, and by extension, the villain, made a mistake and players set out to rightfully punish this mistake, and that didn't work for... Reasons?
Where's the game in this process?
Personally, I would just let the PCs prevail here, seems like they earned it.
As the DM, it's not like I'm going to suddenly run out of villains.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
There isn't any. Which was the point I already made above.
It isn't a game. It's "Dance, My Playthings", but incognito, because people tend to react badly when you just say that outright.
