D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[pemerton]

Outside of the combat there may be tension associated with other aspects of the narrative, but the combat itself produces no tension as there is no risk involved. The playing out of the combat feels empty, and nothing more than "filler" and a waste of time. T

<snip>

I don't experience tension in combat, in a game where PCs can't die, as there is no inherent risk in engaging in combat.

I don't follow why risk has to equate to risk of death. What about other sorts of risk that inhere in physical altercation - eg being injured, or blinded, or maimed, or . . .?

As my posts have indicated, I also think that there can be tension-generating risks that are not inherent but rather are contextual consequences of a particular conflict - eg that if a NPC is not physically defeated or impeded in some way, then they will do <some or other bad/undesirable thing>.

 

[bloodtide]

There's no reason why, in a RPG, combat has to be structured so that the only fictional colour that can be applied to defeat is PC death.

Right, there are non combat RPGs. So, why do people insist on making all combat characters in nearly all combat games, and then say "Oh I want to play some other way"?

Upthread I gave examples like being captured, or driven off. Another is when there is some sort of "clock" in the combat - eg, if the PCs don't defeat the NPC within a certain time, then the NPC will do <some bad/undesirable thing>. Stop the ritual or stop the sacrifice are examples of this, which I used in 4e D&D play.

Of course, the vast majority of players consider "PC capture" to be Railroading and Bad. And few players have their PCs 'driven off.....they get the Pc killed first.

And how far do you go with "capture"? Do the PCs loose all their stuff? ALL of their stuff? When the PCs are "driven away" do they drop or loose anything?

 

[pemerton]

why do people insist on making all combat characters in nearly all combat games, and then say "Oh I want to play some other way"?

I don't know which people you are saying do this. It's not something that I've experienced.

the vast majority of players consider "PC capture" to be Railroading and Bad. And few players have their PCs 'driven off.....they get the Pc killed first.

And how far do you go with "capture"? Do the PCs loose all their stuff? ALL of their stuff? When the PCs are "driven away" do they drop or loose anything?

I posted links to examples upthread - not from D&D play, but from Torchbearer 2e - that provide examples:

I sprang my twist: a group of Orcs was coming down a narrow way that continued upwards from the top of the stair - a narrow way that the PCs had not noticed - and was attacking the PCs, to drive them off.

The Orcs and PCs started out with equal dispositions - 9 hp each - but my cunning scripting, together with the Orcs' helmets and shields that let them absorb damage, and also the PCs inability to help one another properly (due to being Afraid), meant that the Orcs were victorious in this conflict: the PCs were, indeed, driven off. But I owed a significant compromise, as the Orcs had lost all but 3 hp by the end of the conflict, and so I agreed to the the player's suggestion that they were able to fall back into the tunnel. This did mean, though, that Fea-bella had to leave behind her half-moon glaive, of which she had been disarmed by the Orcs during the fight.

as they were about to head upstairs the Gnolls got the drop on them, initiating a Capture conflict, not actually wanting to take them prisoner again, but wanting their loot back!

The Gnolls won this conflict in two volleys, but the PCs did earn a compromise, and we agreed that the Gnolls would be happy with their cash and jewel loot, plus Golin's (damaged) plate armour, which he was not wearing (on account of its being damaged). But the PCs could keep their mundane stuff.