The Greatest TV Shows of All Time (Kinda): The Top 10

Stalker0

Legend
Despite not sticking the landing during its final season, Game of Thrones was fantastic television for a very long time. Indeed as soon as they ran out of books, it all went down hill. But that was after about 5 fantastic seasons.
While I agree that the show declines noticeable in seasons 6 and 7.... it was still solid TV. It wasn't incredible like it was...but still solid.

I think what really kills GoT for me is how incredibly rushed the final season (number 8) was....and it did not have to be. This is not your classic "we are getting cancelled got to wrap this up". HBO is literally going "please showrunners, make more, we will give you money...you like money right....have some money". They had every green light to make a longer season, or hell 2 or 3 more seasons if they wanted.

But the showrunners said no they could do it in just a handful of episodes....and they were so rushed it felt like absolute hot garbage. Now I can respect that the guys were tired, or maybe wanted to do something else, or had a new opportunity, etc....these things happen. But you turn the reigns over to someone else, wish them good luck, and let the project continue...you don't just kill it so you can be over and done with it.

GoT is such a travesty for that reason. It rose so high, and fell incredibly far in that last season. Season 7 had its bad moments believe me....but it was still really enjoyable. Season 8 is watching your favorite toy get thrown into a garbage fire.
 

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Regarding Game of Thrones, what bothered me the most, is the character assassination of Daenerys in the last season, and in general how all characters end their journey. Emilia Clarke seemed so sad and depressed in interviews. She loved playing that character and she deserved better.

The ending for the Hound felt unfulfilling. The ending for Jamie and Cersei did not seem in line with where the books were heading, nor what GRRM intended. And that entire final battle that was way too dark to see what was going on, seemed like a massive post production blunder.

How do you finish work on an episode, look at it, realize that everyone's work is impossible to make out, and then decide that your work here is done? What the hell happened there? Days of stunt work, night shoots for cast and crew (which is no picknick), so much work for the make up and costume department... Not to mention months of hard work by CG artists, and then you make all their work invisible by incorrectly balancing the brightness in post production!

And sure, the Starbucks cup meme was funny for a while, even though they embarassed some of their actors by blaming it on them. But it really wasn't their fault. Actors have coffee in between scenes, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not their responsibility to make sure those cups aren't on screen once shooting resumes. It is indicative that someone in charge wasn't paying any attention during the final season.

And let me just put it out there that maybe several consequetive days of night shoots in the cold are not okay to put your actors through. The showrunners all have a big laugh about it in their "making of the episode", but it wrecks the actors. As cool as that Hard Home episode was, is it worth mistreating your cast and crew for?

In fact, that seems like a running theme with all their making ofs. "Yeah, we put Kit Harrington through hell for several days on end, and he was freezing his nuts off, but he just has to do it cause we said so. Ha ha! Hilarious! Smile to the camera Kit!"
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
...and do you not get why I wrote that? I mean, sure, as an American and an English-speaking person, I could write a top 10 list without any criteria that would have been heavily slanted toward American shows (and to a lesser extent, British shows). But that would have been, IMO, much more obnoxious than explicitly excluding them. A lack of self-knowledge is what leads people to say that they are listing the best of something, and then only putting in their own culture's examples. "I'm an American, and English is my first language. so let's just assume that all those shows with the pesky subtitles... or that haven't even been subtitled ... don't exist."

But to be explicit- I think it is usually much worse for someone to implicitly claim that they are evaluating all the world's TV when they have limited experience with the best programs from other countries.

And yes- the whole point of that explanation (explicitly referencing British programs with the BBC and foreign language programs with Borgen) was to avoid this kind of unthinking pushback. Again, why bother?
You’re clearly upset, which was not my intention. I’m sorry; I misjudged the situation. I’ll leave you to your threads. Enjoy!
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Regarding Game of Thrones, what bothered me the most, is the character assassination of Daenerys in the last season, and in general how all characters end their journey. Emilia Clarke seemed so sad and depressed in interviews. She loved playing that character and she deserved better.

The ending for the Hound felt unfulfilling. The ending for Jamie and Cersei did not seem in line with where the books were heading, nor what GRRM intended. And that entire final battle that was way too dark to see what was going on, seemed like a massive post production blunder.

How do you finish work on an episode, look at it, realize that everyone's work is impossible to make out, and then decide that your work here is done? What the hell happened there? Days of stunt work, night shoots for cast and crew (which is no picknick), so much work for the make up and costume department... Not to mention months of hard work by CG artists, and then you make all their work invisible by incorrectly balancing the brightness in post production!

And sure, the Starbucks cup meme was funny for a while, even though they embarassed some of their actors by blaming it on them. But it really wasn't their fault. Actors have coffee in between scenes, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not their responsibility to make sure those cups aren't on screen once shooting resumes. It is indicative that someone in charge wasn't paying any attention during the final season.

And let me just put it out there that maybe several consequetive days of night shoots in the cold are not okay to put your actors through. The showrunners all have a big laugh about it in their "making of the episode", but it wrecks the actors. As cool as that Hard Home episode was, is it worth mistreating your cast and crew for?

In fact, that seems like a running theme with all their making ofs. "Yeah, we put Kit Harrington through hell for several days on end, and he was freezing his nuts off, but he just has to do it cause we said so. Ha ha! Hilarious! Smile to the camera Kit!"
I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode. I just had to say that I dont want to get started on how much better GoT could have been on the back half.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode. I just had to say that I dont want to get started on how much better GoT could have been on the back half.

I don't find the last season+ of GOT as terrible as everyone else; I just don't think it is quite as good as what came before. The primary problem isn't necessarily the way that the character arcs ended, it's the way that they got there. Daenerys, as you astutely point out- that made perfect sense, but the "heel turn" happened way too quickly and just wasn't properly supported.

The amazing thing about the earlier parts of GOT is that, for the most part, it was allowed to breathe. But after moving from the books, and especially in the last season, it became rushed. Given that we know that they were offered more shows to finish GOT and turn the offer down, part of me thinks that the showrunners were just burnt- it was a massive production, and keeping up that sustained level must have been exhausting.

To me, the problems they were having with distance and travel (during the last season, people just magically appeared were they needed to, despite the geographic distances) were a metaphor for the change- it went from being an incredibly realistic show (but, you know, with dragons and stuff) with intricate plots and character development to ... well, a high budget "good" show that failed to live up the lofty standards that it had set, which made it look that much worse in comparison.
 

I didnt mind Daenerys taking a turn, she does have mad king blood in her. I just hated that developed over half an episode.

Oh, absolutely. It could have worked, if they had been patient with that plot line. Instead, they did her dirty. They suddenly changed her from a kind character, to a monster. It must have been horrible for Emilia to see her favourite character be treated that way.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
This is hard using that criteria.

In no particular order.

Breaking Bad
The Wire
Sopranos

Just watched all of the Sopranos recently, back in the day just watched the first few. I really like Justified as well.

I would include Simpsons but not allowed. Been watching season 6-17 recently. Very few if any dud episodes so far.

My secret guilt trip Survivor fight me. Been watching it for 20 years why stop now? Stargate Atlantis for one more.

Hmmmn Orange is the New Black I'll throw that one in. House of Cards was great but final season meh.

Breaking Bad
The Wire
Justified
Sopranos
Survivor
Stargate Atlantis
Orange is the New Black

Mindblank atm.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Oh, absolutely. It could have worked, if they had been patient with that plot line. Instead, they did her dirty. They suddenly changed her from a kind character, to a monster. It must have been horrible for Emilia to see her favourite character be treated that way.

Her turning wasn't a bad idea execution of it though.

I've seen better heel turns in WWE/WWF and Revenge of the Sith. When Vince McMahon can do it better than you can......
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Brief comments-

Mr. Robot and Legion are two of my favorite shows ever, but not necessarily top 10 (they were both honorable mention).

Homicide - Life on the Streets. So good. So very good. Not to mention the whole Richard Belzer TV Universe!

...but Sons of Anarchy? It had a severe Dexter problem (IMO). I absolutely loved the first few seasons, but it started to get ... bad. I watched the whole thing, and it never went "Full Lumberjack," but sometime around the Irish season it just lost a sense of direction.

The show declined but never fell off a cliff. Also had a decent ending.
 

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