The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[trappedslider]

Keep it together folks! Eyes on the prize! If the thread gets shut down, the Bards win!

The Bard's one and only job is to write an award-winning play/musical/book about the adventuring party.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The Bard's one and only job is to write an award-winning play/musical/book about the adventuring party.

I was always told that the job of the Bard is to determine the depth of the Nyr Dyv, and to keep tossing them in until we got an accurate reading.

 

[Ryujin]

I was always told that the job of the Bard is to determine the depth of the Nyr Dyv, and to keep tossing them in until we got an accurate reading.

Given the way that they breed, you'll eventually even fill Nyr Dyv.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Can one of you come and get your weather,it's in my yard, and i want it gone.

It is aggressively grim weather here. It's hard to believe the days are supposed to be getting longer right now.

 

[CleverNickName]

Sometimes, the rules aren't the problem. Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.

 

[Scribe]

Sometimes, the rules aren't the problem. Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.

Further, if there is always a problem with x (where x in (players, dms, rules)) then one must consider if the problem is actually within x, and not y.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Sometimes, the rules aren't the problem. Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.

I often view this as a distinction between Soccer and Football. Or, um, American Gridiron Football and Futbol. Whatever.

The American fear of judgment (and discretion) is best exemplified by the rules of Football, which are currently 245 pages for the NFL- and that doesn't include certain things that are incorporated by reference. To give you an idea of the type of legalistic verbiage, here is the rule for "Muffs"-

ARTICLE 6. MUFF.
A Muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession of it.
Note: Any ball intentionally muffed forward is a bat and may be a foul (3-3; 12-5-1; 3-15).
Touching the Ball refers to any contact with the ball. There is no distinction between a player touching the ball with his hands, or with any other part of his body, including his hair, except as specifically provided for (9-2-2).
Note: The result of the touching is sometimes influenced by the intent or the location.
(a) See 6-1-4 and 6-2-4 for touching a free kick.
(b) See 6-2-3 for touching a free kick before it goes out of bounds between the goal lines.
(c) See 8-1-8 for ineligible offensive player touching a forward pass on, behind, or beyond the line.
(d) See 9-2-1, 9-3-1 for touching a scrimmage kick on or behind the line, and also 9-2-4 for being pushed into a kick by an opponent.
(e) See 11-4-2 for touching a kick during an attempted field goal.
(f) Simultaneous touching by two opponents in an attempt to establish possession of a ball that has been kicked is treated as a first touch by the kicking team.

See? Clear as mud!

Contrast that with the rules of soccer- FIFA's laws of the game. Once you get past issues of the pitch (the field) and the ball, then the actual rules are minimalistic. The entire section on direct and indirect free kicks, and the fouls and examples that make them up, consists of less than three pages.

It's not the referee has unlimited discretion, but simply that things that are corner cases (what exactly is impeding the progress of an opponent?) are determined by the referee- not mechanistic application of a rule.

Neither way of doing things is better or worse, but it is different. While I use this as an example, it comes up on other areas- the difference in accounting standards/rules (GAAP v. IFRS). The difference in common law decision making as opposed to statutory code. There are a lot of tradeoffs involved.

But in the end, no set of rules, no matter how detailed, forces someone to follow the rules. That's kind of an important point.

 

[Cadence]

I often view this as a distinction between Soccer and Football. Or, um, American Gridiron Football and Futbol. Whatever.

The American fear of judgment (and discretion) is best exemplified by the rules of Football, which are currently 245 pages for the NFL- and that doesn't include certain things that are incorporated by reference. To give you an idea of the type of legalistic verbiage, here is the rule for "Muffs"-

ARTICLE 6. MUFF.
A Muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession of it.
Note: Any ball intentionally muffed forward is a bat and may be a foul (3-3; 12-5-1; 3-15).
Touching the Ball refers to any contact with the ball. There is no distinction between a player touching the ball with his hands, or with any other part of his body, including his hair, except as specifically provided for (9-2-2).
Note: The result of the touching is sometimes influenced by the intent or the location.
(a) See 6-1-4 and 6-2-4 for touching a free kick.
(b) See 6-2-3 for touching a free kick before it goes out of bounds between the goal lines.
(c) See 8-1-8 for ineligible offensive player touching a forward pass on, behind, or beyond the line.
(d) See 9-2-1, 9-3-1 for touching a scrimmage kick on or behind the line, and also 9-2-4 for being pushed into a kick by an opponent.
(e) See 11-4-2 for touching a kick during an attempted field goal.
(f) Simultaneous touching by two opponents in an attempt to establish possession of a ball that has been kicked is treated as a first touch by the kicking team.

See? Clear as mud!

Contrast that with the rules of soccer- FIFA's laws of the game. Once you get past issues of the pitch (the field) and the ball, then the actual rules are minimalistic. The entire section on direct and indirect free kicks, and the fouls and examples that make them up, consists of less than three pages.

It's not the referee has unlimited discretion, but simply that things that are corner cases (what exactly is impeding the progress of an opponent?) are determined by the referee- not mechanistic application of a rule.

Neither way of doing things is better or worse, but it is different. While I use this as an example, it comes up on other areas- the difference in accounting standards/rules (GAAP v. IFRS). The difference in common law decision making as opposed to statutory code. There are a lot of tradeoffs involved.

But in the end, no set of rules, no matter how detailed, forces someone to follow the rules. That's kind of an important point.

I kind of want to see an AI trained on Gygax rewrite the NFL rule book...

 

[Deset Gled]

Sometimes, the rules aren't the problem. Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.

Actually, the best set of game rules typically do include mechanics specifically to handle the case of one player going completely off the walls and screwing things up. This is where we get things like chess clocks, red/yellow cards in sports games, "mercy kill" rules, etc. Even the bankruptcy rules in Monopoly are written a way that technically prevents a player from giving away all their property rather that giving it to the owner of the hotel they just landed on. It's harder for an RPG, but it is possible to build in provisions that prevent...

...

I never know how to feel when this thread accidentally slides into legitimate game design discussions.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I kind of want to see an AI trained on Gygax rewrite the NFL rule book...

Wait .... how do we know it hasn't been .... already?
-The first victim of Roko's Basilisk, probably.