The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[Wofano Wotanto]

Speaking of clocks and risking actually saying something involving roleplaying, anyone remember reading the Clocks of Iraz? A key plot point in the book revolves around tampering with the big municipal clock in the titular city, which has four faces pointing N-S-E-W as they often do. Always wanted to adapt that idea for a city-based campaign - the trick in the novel is obvious but it's a good seed for more sophisticated ideas that would fit in (say) Blades In the Dark nicely. Never rely on the other guy's clock for your planning.

 

[payn]

Folks, there is no value in continuing that line of discussion.

 

[bmfrosty]

I keep thinking about the state of OSR systems - specifically in the commercial sense. I keep thinking that DCC, OSE, and ShadowDark are the top of the pile right now, but a few others (LL, S&W, and OSRIC) are hanging on, plus there are bunch that never really left the lulu stage and a bunch past that that maybe fall under NuOSR like Worlds without Number, Cairn, Mork Borg, and Knave.

This is really a tl;dr post that I want to make, but I don't want to make a tl;dr post in which a bunch of people are going to point out my incompleteness or argue that Pathfinder is OSR because Taxidermic Owlbear lists it as a retroclone.

Maybe it would be a better use of my time to port Taxidermic Owlbear to wikipedia or something.

 

[Nikosandros]

I'll never understand why people feel the need for their tastes (whether they like something or dislike it) to be validated by the "market".

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'll never understand why people feel the need for their tastes (whether they like something or dislike it) to be validated by the "market".

It if doesn't pull in Wizards of Waverly Place numbers, it clearly isn't good or valid for anyone.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I keep thinking about the state of OSR systems - specifically in the commercial sense. I keep thinking that DCC, OSE, and ShadowDark are the top of the pile right now, but a few others (LL, S&W, and OSRIC) are hanging on, plus there are bunch that never really left the lulu stage and a bunch past that that maybe fall under NuOSR like Worlds without Number, Cairn, Mork Borg, and Knave.

This is really a tl;dr post that I want to make, but I don't want to make a tl;dr post in which a bunch of people are going to point out my incompleteness or argue that Pathfinder is OSR because Taxidermic Owlbear lists it as a retroclone.

Maybe it would be a better use of my time to port Taxidermic Owlbear to wikipedia or something.

Really good Questing Beast video today on this. The best numbers are near the end, IMO, where they look at what the percentage of games on Kickstarter OSR makes up, along with raw dollar amounts. I came away thinking that OSR games have never been bigger, at least in terms of Kickstarter funding which is one easy-ish to find metric.



And Pathfinder may be a retroclone, but it's not OSR. Although many OSR games are retroclones, and vice versa, they're not the same thing.

The style of play most supported by 3E/PF is different in a number of ways than what the TSR editions of D&D were enabling. Yes, one could always play a game that ignores a given game's strengths vs. weaknesses. (This argument hinges on the presumption that system matters to an extent and if you don't believe in that at all, that's a whole separate argument.) One could modify and tweak 3E to make it into a scary and gritty dungeoncrawler, in the same way one could modify a Cessna to be a land vehicle, but in both cases, it's easier to go with something purpose-built from the get-go.

 

[Gradine]

I'll never understand why people feel the need for their tastes (whether they like something or dislike it) to be validated by the "market".

I mean, not to be all "it all ties back to capitalism" but... it kinda all ties back to capitalism? Like, if things could just be made just because and exist and be enjoyed by some but not by all I'm sure it would be all hunky dory, but I mean, even Shakespeare's gotta eat, and unless things've changed drastically since this morning that still requires dollarydoos, which means if you make stuff people gotta buy it, and if you like the thing and want more of it, you kind of need other people to buy and like it too or else the people who made it will go do something else that will earn them sweet sweet calories.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I mean, not to be all "it all ties back to capitalism" but... it kinda all ties back to capitalism? Like, if things could just be made just because and exist and be enjoyed by some but not by all I'm sure it would be all hunky dory, but I mean, even Shakespeare's gotta eat, and unless things've changed drastically since this morning that still requires dollarydoos, which means if you make stuff people gotta buy it, and if you like the thing and want more of it, you kind of need other people to buy and like it too or else the people who made it will go do something else that will earn them sweet sweet calories.

Yeah, but once you have your copy of GoblinQuest D20, or whatever, it doesn't really matter if GoblinCorp goes out of business 30 seconds later. You can play GoblinQuest for the rest of time. Even if no one but you and your band of misfit friends loves the game, you have a hobby that makes you happy.

I don't think it's capitalism in this case so much as "I don't like a thing and I have some goalposts on wheels I'm going to scoot around in an attempt to attack it."

 

[Nikosandros]

I mean, not to be all "it all ties back to capitalism" but... it kinda all ties back to capitalism? Like, if things could just be made just because and exist and be enjoyed by some but not by all I'm sure it would be all hunky dory, but I mean, even Shakespeare's gotta eat, and unless things've changed drastically since this morning that still requires dollarydoos, which means if you make stuff people gotta buy it, and if you like the thing and want more of it, you kind of need other people to buy and like it too or else the people who made it will go do something else that will earn them sweet sweet calories.

Yes, but what I observe is usually rather less reasonable. And in the case of disliked things it becomes sometimes outright irrational, with people going out of their way to argue against the success of stuff.

 

[Gradine]

Yeah, but once you have your copy of GoblinQuest D20, or whatever, it doesn't really matter if GoblinCorp goes out of business 30 seconds later. You can play GoblinQuest for the rest of time. Even if no one but you and your band of misfit friends loves the game, you have a hobby that makes you happy.

I don't think it's capitalism in this case so much as "I don't like a thing and I have some goalposts on wheels I'm going to scoot around in an attempt to attack it."

I may not be familiar with the specific use case you're talking about here, as is often the case (and one could say, is even the point) of this thread. So it's potential I am off base in this instance. But...

Yes, but what I observe is usually rather less reasonable. And in the case of disliked things it becomes sometimes outright irrational, with people going out of their way to argue against the success of stuff.

...even if it isn't consciously capitalism, I would still be willing to wager it is unconsciously capitalism, in the "I don't like this, but if lots of people do like it there's only going to be more of it, no stop it please make it stop" sense, which may or may not be rational or accurate, and is often neither (see: the "go woke, go broke" myth).