The Jedi Order. Some thoughts.

[JacktheRabbit]

They are a dense crew. Not one of them realizes that the attempts on Senator Amidala are fake and meant to fail. Also no one ever asks why or how Jango Fett was playing both sides to the middle.

They exceed their authority quite a bit. Obi-Wan is ordered to bring Jango Fett in for questioning. When he is ordered to do this he is outside the Republic. So he has no legal authority. In effect he is being ordered to kidnap a private citizen with no legal reason to back the action up.

Yoda is listed as the greatest of the Jedi. Yet he is an example of just about their greatest failure. Dooku was Yoda's apprentice and he lost him to the dark side without even knowing it. This does not speak well of Yoda since as was mentioned in a cut scene even before Dooku left he was known for his great ambition.

 

[Mouseferatu]

SPOILERS:










To be fair, there's nothing in the movie to suggest the assassination attempts on Padme were meant to fail. That's an interpretation I don't happen to agree with.

Zam Wessel certainly seemed to be doing her best to kill Padme. Her dialogue to Jango indicates she didn't expect them to use a decoy when she blew up the landing platform. You may consider her use of poisonous bugs to be a hint that she didn't plan to succeed, but that's a common trope in genre fiction. I think it was just a poorly thought out plan, not a deliberate failure.

Remember, at this point of the movie, Palpatine and Dooku have no reason to want her kept alive, and Dooku has good reason to want her dead (i.e. to cement his alliance with the Trade Federation.)

 

[Wolf72]

My favorite part of the Jedi order was that it was populated by humans (errr sentients) that still make real mistakes and are affected by real character flaws (pride).

in Ep4-6 the Jedi (the limited view we got) seemed monastic and morally untouchable (to a certain extant) ...

Now I see them as real people with real problems and requiring a code to live by ... or they can loose control and turn to the dark side. even the Sith have a code or rules ...

??? what would you get if someone used the force without any real training? Some sort of hedge wizard??

 

[Black Omega]

They are a dense crew. Not one of them realizes that the attempts on Senator Amidala are fake and meant to fail. Also no one ever asks why or how Jango Fett was playing both sides to the middle.

Certainly a few people have had fun slamming on the Jedi lately. But I don't think we can blame this on them. The assasination attemps don't seem to be fake. They are a catalyst to start Palpy's plan in motion. If Amidala lives or dies, either way I'm sure he was something planned to get what he wants. The assassination attempt with the bugs wasn't exactly efficient, but that doesn't mean they weren't trying to really kill Amidala.

They exceed their authority quite a bit. Obi-Wan is ordered to bring Jango Fett in for questioning. When he is ordered to do this he is outside the Republic. So he has no legal authority. In effect he is being ordered to kidnap a private citizen with no legal reason to back the action up.

Forgive me for asking, but what part of the movie or novel suggests he was exceeding his authority? By early 21st century Earth law, he probably would be. But if neither Obiwan, the Jedi Council, Jango Fett or the Kaminoans seem to feel this is an illegal act, why should we?

Yoda is listed as the greatest of the Jedi. Yet he is an example of just about their greatest failure. Dooku was Yoda's apprentice and he lost him to the dark side without even knowing it. This does not speak well of Yoda since as was mentioned in a cut scene even before Dooku left he was known for his great ambition.

Of course, the impression given in the novel is that Dooku could very well have been sincerely disenchanted with the Republic when he left. His fall to the darkside could have taken place before he left, or after. If after, then it's no shock Yoda doesn't realize Dooku later falls to the Darkside.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

What about Leia? Isn't she kind of going against Jedi commands by loving Han? Just how much is the New Jedi Order different from the Old Jedi Order, anyway?!?!

 

[Black Omega]

What about Leia? Isn't she kind of going against Jedi commands by loving Han? Just how much is the New Jedi Order different from the Old Jedi Order, anyway?!?!

Well, Luke married Mara Jade, as I recall. There is quite a bit different between the old and the new.

 

[Welverin]

What about Leia? Isn't she kind of going against Jedi commands by loving Han? Just how much is the New Jedi Order different from the Old Jedi Order, anyway?!?!

A lot since Luke knew next to nothing about the old order.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: The Jedi Order. Some thoughts.

The FBI could not touch you even if they knew you were a mass murderer if you were walking down the streets of a city in Brazil.

Why?

Because the agent would be well ouside his legal jurisdiction. The best the agent could do would be to ask the Brazilian police to arrest you.

Obi-Wan is in the same situation. The cloners planet as states is NOT in the Republic. If its not in the Republic then Obi-Wan has ZERO authority on the planet to arrest someone.

Forgive me for asking, but what part of the movie or novel suggests he was exceeding his authority? By early 21st century Earth law, he probably would be. But if neither Obiwan, the Jedi Council, Jango Fett or the Kaminoans seem to feel this is an illegal act, why should we?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

There would be no similarity at all. All of the Jedi but Yoda were killed. I doubt that Yoda wasted time teaching Luke about the old Jedi Beaurocracy and bylaws. So any Jedi after EP6 would be doing things in whatever manner Luke sees fit to instruct them.

What about Leia? Isn't she kind of going against Jedi commands by loving Han? Just how much is the New Jedi Order different from the Old Jedi Order, anyway?!?!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

No indicators other than the completely pathetic and ineffectual types of attempts that were made. Jango Fett is supposed to be renowned throughout the Republic and yet choses such obviously pathetic methods? Jango makes mention that he has met Jedi before. He should know at least something of their abilities.

Finally why program to have your droid return to you after dropping off the bugs. A smart assasin would have it self destruct so that no one can use it the way Obi-Wan did, basically to trace right back to the killer. The attempts were designed to fail by Jango, his Changling subordinate may think they are genuine attempts but they are not.

SPOILERS:










To be fair, there's nothing in the movie to suggest the assassination attempts on Padme were meant to fail. That's an interpretation I don't happen to agree with.

Zam Wessel certainly seemed to be doing her best to kill Padme. Her dialogue to Jango indicates she didn't expect them to use a decoy when she blew up the landing platform. You may consider her use of poisonous bugs to be a hint that she didn't plan to succeed, but that's a common trope in genre fiction. I think it was just a poorly thought out plan, not a deliberate failure.

Remember, at this point of the movie, Palpatine and Dooku have no reason to want her kept alive, and Dooku has good reason to want her dead (i.e. to cement his alliance with the Trade Federation.)