D&D 5E The Mainstreaming of D&D

[Charlaquin]

well, then you have to contrive a narrative in which the pcs have 6-8 resource-draining encounters (combat). Dungeons could work, as long as there are convenient resting spots

Well, you have to present adventuring locations where characters are likely to have 6-8 resource draining encounters and 2-3 opportunities to rest - a dungeon being a good example - and give them reasons to want to go to those locations. The narrative is what emerges from the decisions the players make when their characters are in such situations.

 

[el-remmen]

As the dedicated thread I have for exploring this as it applies to my gaming style establishes, I run about 1 to 3 encounters an in-game day (when any at all make sense, of course) and the PCs are consistently challenged (though we had four encounters within an in-game three hour time frame last session).

 

[Reynard]

Sure.

Speak for yourself. 6-8 medium encounters (as defined by the encounter building guidelines) in a day is pretty typical in a dangerous adventuring location in my experience.

The only problem with that is, in my experience and opinion, moderate difficulty encounters in 5E are just plain boring and hardly worth the time invested in them. Because of the way creatures are built in 5E, and the way that HP is the only real resource worth tracking, the kinds of relative CRs that make up medium encounters are either bags of hit points with very little likelihood of hurting a PC, or hordes of easy to dispatch minions. Neither one makes for memorable encounters. You can spice things up a little with terrain and active traps, of course, but once you start doing that you may as well just make it a Deadly set piece encounter everyone is going to be engaged with and remember fondly.

 

[Yora]

The sanitization and ren-faire conversion of D&D was completed with the launch of the AD&D 2nd edition in the late 80s. While they may not have had the same commercial success as WotC has now with 5th edition, you have the same mentality of making an inoffensive corporate mass product, rather than having it be a form of artistic expression.

If you don't like modern D&D, you probably can blame almost all of it on Dragonlance. If you love modern D&D, you can thank Dragonlance.
Tracy Hickmann is completely underestimated as the third most important person in the history of D&D.

 

[Parmandur]

The only problem with that is, in my experience and opinion, moderate difficulty encounters in 5E are just plain boring and hardly worth the time invested in them. Because of the way creatures are built in 5E, and the way that HP is the only real resource worth tracking, the kinds of relative CRs that make up medium encounters are either bags of hit points with very little likelihood of hurting a PC, or hordes of easy to dispatch minions. Neither one makes for memorable encounters. You can spice things up a little with terrain and active traps, of course, but once you start doing that you may as well just make it a Deadly set piece encounter everyone is going to be engaged with and remember fondly.

That's why you go through them fast.

 

[Charlaquin]

As the dedicated thread I have for exploring this as it applies to my gaming style establishes, I run about 1 to 3 encounters an in-game day (when any at all make sense, of course) and the PCs are consistently challenged (though we had four encounters within an in-game three hour time frame last session).

Consistently challenged, sure, but do characters consistently die? I was responding to a complaint (which I often hear variations of) that 5e characters are hard to kill. And, yeah, if you do a small number of hard-to-deadly encounters per day they are. If you do a large number of medium-to-hard encounters per day, characters are much more likely to die. Because the game is designed around resource attrition.

Now, not everyone wants a super-deadly game, in which case it makes sense to go outside those guidelines. But I find the “5e is easy mode” complaint rather silly when people tend to seriously undershoot the game’s recommended difficulty.

 

[Parmandur]

As the dedicated thread I have for exploring this as it applies to my gaming style establishes, I run about 1 to 3 encounters an in-game day (when any at all make sense, of course) and the PCs are consistently challenged (though we had four encounters within an in-game three hour time frame last session).

Sure, the game plays fine with fewer encounters. But following the DMG guidelines will consistently grind characters down, if so desired.

 

[Reynard]

The sanitization and ren-faire conversion of D&D was completed with the launch of the AD&D 2nd edition in the late 80s. While they may not have had the same commercial success as WotC has now with 5th edition, you have the same mentality of making an inoffensive corporate mass product, rather than having it be a form of artistic expression.

If you don't like modern D&D, you probably can blame almost all of it on Dragonlance. If you love modern D&D, you can thank Dragonlance.
Tracy Hickmann is completely underestimated as the third most important person in the history of D&D.

While I think you are ignoring the early to mid WotC era as being a different animal, I agree with your final statement.

 

[Reynard]

That's why you go through them fast.

I honestly just don't think it is worth it. 3 Deadlies with a short rest between each works just as well, makes for more interesting encounters in general, and has the meta-benefit of all fitting in one session.

 

[Charlaquin]

The only problem with that is, in my experience and opinion, moderate difficulty encounters in 5E are just plain boring and hardly worth the time invested in them. Because of the way creatures are built in 5E, and the way that HP is the only real resource worth tracking, the kinds of relative CRs that make up medium encounters are either bags of hit points with very little likelihood of hurting a PC, or hordes of easy to dispatch minions. Neither one makes for memorable encounters. You can spice things up a little with terrain and active traps, of course, but once you start doing that you may as well just make it a Deadly set piece encounter everyone is going to be engaged with and remember fondly.

Yes, the individual encounters in a 6-8 medium encounter day do tend to be quick and not terribly threatening. It is the gradual dwindling of resources (mostly HP, but also short and long rest recharge resources like spell slots and other class features) over the course of many such encounters that puts the PCs into a dangerous spot where they have to make difficult decisions, which creates memorable stories.

A small number of big set piece encounters can also be fun and memorable! It’s just less likely to be deadly. Which for many is a plus.