The martial Rogue

[Tidus4444]

The Martial Rogue:
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 6+int mod
BAB: as fighter. Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
Special abilities:
Level: ability:
1 sneak attack +1d6. Weapon finesse
2 evasion
3 sneak attack +2d6
4
5 sneak attack +3d6
6
7 sneak attack +4d6
8
9 sneak attack +5d6
10 special ability
11 sneak attack +6d6
12
13 sneak attack +7d6, special ability
14
15 sneak attack +8d6
16 special ability
17 sneak attack +9d6
18
19 sneak attack +10d6, special ability
20

This class is very similar to Rogue with serveral exceptions:
1. Fighter BAB
2. Weapon Finess
3. 6 sp/lvl instead of 8
4. no uncanny dodge

So, is trading in 2 sp and uncanny dodge worth a feat and fighter BAB?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think that is balanced.

You might want to remove the most "roguish" class skills from his list- forgery, open locks, decipher script and disable device, for instance. That'll help the flavor a lot.

It's a nice variation.

 

[Technik4]

I would agree, alter the rogue's skill list. I am also leaning towards lowering the sp to 4, after-all it works fine for the barbarian. One of the biggest things that is jumping out is the rogue who multis keeps their broad range of skills, high skill points, but an even higher BAB. For instance, most Rog/Ass or Rog/Shd don't end up with enough BAB for 4 attacks, they are just shy with +15/+10+/+5. With your variant, they would end up with +17/+12/+7/+2.

Isn't this concept better served by taking 1 level of fighter?

Technik

 

[Tidus4444]

You say that it "works for the barbarian." However, this class isn't meant to fill the barbarian's role. This isn't another fighter class; it's a rogue that focused a bit more on combat than on rogue skills. It only has a d6 hit die. That alone will keep it from being a tank. Fighter BAB does not mean it can fight as well as a fighter or barb. Fighter feats, barbarian's rage, paladin's special abilities, ranger's abilities, and hit dice all affect fighting ability. This character only get Fighter bab.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Have you looked at the Ninja from Rokugon? Very similar concept, it has d6 hit die, 6 skill points, and fighter BAB. I know you can get it free, I just don't remember where. Sorry.

 

[clark411]

Nice, if not a little overpowered in it's ability to hit and deal damage well. I'm in agreement that this is no fighter or barbarian with it's low HP, but still- if something's hit with the consistency of a Fighter's BAB and the lethality of a Rogue's Sneak Attack damage, HP are less of a factor for staying power in a fight as the baddies drop far faster.

Class Skills and Skills per level do work to balance it out, but I still think that these don't address balance in combat. The lower HD doesn't address this... as normal rogues go into combat just as well equipped to handle getting hit. Perhaps I'm a mean guy, but I'd push the Sneak Attack advancement down. You hit more reliably, you deal less damage when you do. Ok, I'm very mean... but there has to be something in this class that keeps my secret powergamer from screaming with glee at the thought of playing such a character. 2 less skills per level does not accomplish this task.

 

[AeroDm]

My only real qualm with the class is that I'd never take rogue if that was offered. I lose 2 skill pts/level which really isn't that bad considering these martial rogues are only going to want the more movement based skills (or so I assume). Cutting out the "roguish" skills means the loss of 2 skills is nothing.

Losing uncanny sort of sucks because as a martial type they are going to be in the fray, but it is certainly manageable. The bonus finesse isn't really anything to get in a gripe about. The BAB is obviously the big issue. I'd drop em to 4 skills, pull evasion, or something else that puts a fairly serious dent in the front of the class.

Cool concept though.

 

[hong]

My only real qualm with the class is that I'd never take rogue if that was offered. I lose 2 skill pts/level which really isn't that bad considering these martial rogues are only going to want the more movement based skills (or so I assume). Cutting out the "roguish" skills means the loss of 2 skills is nothing.

... unless, of course, you actually want to be a rogue, as opposed to a "martial rogue".

 

[bret]

Nice, if not a little overpowered in it's ability to hit and deal damage well. I'm in agreement that this is no fighter or barbarian with it's low HP, but still- if something's hit with the consistency of a Fighter's BAB and the lethality of a Rogue's Sneak Attack damage, HP are less of a factor for staying power in a fight as the baddies drop far faster.

Assuming this is supposed to live in a campaign with regular rogues, it is too good.

Currently, a lot of fighters look to pick up a few levels of rogue to provide a skill boost. Doing so hurts their BAB. Given this class, almost everyone would multiclass into it instead of rogue.

Something that isn't clear: Does this class have the trapfinding ability of the normal rogue? You've said they have the same skill list, but without trap finding the search really doesn't help much.

Heck, many a finesse fighter would take this for the other goodies it gives. A fighter normally only gets one feat per two levels, so it wouldn't put them behind in feats. Take a second level for the evasion, all they lost was an average of 4 hit points (2 per level). Sounds like a great deal.

 

[hong]

Assuming this is supposed to live in a campaign with regular rogues, it is too good.

Currently, a lot of fighters look to pick up a few levels of rogue to provide a skill boost.

They do? I certainly haven't seen it.

Doing so hurts their BAB. Given this class, almost everyone would multiclass into it instead of rogue.

Eh. The disadvantage of taking a few rogue levels, compared to fighter levels, isn't the BAB. You only lose 1 point in 4 levels, which is nothing. The disadvantages are 1) fewer feats, 2) lower hit points; 3) worse Fort save (which becomes significant later on, because almost all the instakill effects in the game require a Fort save to negate); 4) dependence on light armour and hence high Dex in order to take advantage of evasion. All of these still apply when using this class.

Heck, if I wanted a few skill points on the cheap, I wouldn't take levels as a "martial rogue". I'd go for the new ranger. All that this class has, and more.