John Q. Mayhem said:
http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf
(The good Will save is an error; replace with a good Ref save.)
The martial Rogue
- Thread starter Tidus4444
- Start date
http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf
(The good Will save is an error; replace with a good Ref save.)
Mithreander
Explorer
Just to throw my 2 cents where they are not wanted... I have definately been in situations where the BAB is the reason I do not take rogue for a skill boost. As for the new ranger... well that's the new ranger. If we take this character and look at it froma 3.0 point of view... I think it would take more then half the rogues that I have made.
For that matter most of my fighters would be a martial rogue. With the increase to BAB, I can start with the feats that require a +1 BAB score right off, and my character can also excel in the social aspects of the game. He can then shine in both aspects of the game (martial and social).
I see the uncanny dodge as a definate penalty, and the D6 is fair for hit points... but I would slow down the pregreshion of the Sneak attack, to +1d6 at first and another 1d6 every 3 levels after. With a +6d6 Sneak attack at 20th, I think it would even things out to a greater degree. I would let him keep the trap finding ability.
Of course this is just my opinion. Overall, good show!
Cheers.
For that matter most of my fighters would be a martial rogue. With the increase to BAB, I can start with the feats that require a +1 BAB score right off, and my character can also excel in the social aspects of the game. He can then shine in both aspects of the game (martial and social).
I see the uncanny dodge as a definate penalty, and the D6 is fair for hit points... but I would slow down the pregreshion of the Sneak attack, to +1d6 at first and another 1d6 every 3 levels after. With a +6d6 Sneak attack at 20th, I think it would even things out to a greater degree. I would let him keep the trap finding ability.
Of course this is just my opinion. Overall, good show!
Cheers.
Norfleet
First Post
Pssh, that's a total hose. You can keep 8d6 sneak attacks just using the R16/F4 build. You still get up to +16 BAB, enough for 4 primaries, pretty much all the bells and whistles of the rogue, and a solid injection of +3 feats. With sneak attack being pretty much the only thing that really pumps up damage, you don't want to give up too much of it. And is there anything else in the game which raises damage output to the same level as sneak attack?Mithreander said:
Mithreander
Explorer
With that outlook on a R/F, then what is the point of this martial rogue? It offers nothing that is unique, in worldly terms, no?
Norfleet
First Post
Personally, I'd think that a "martial" rogue would be more specialized towards the aspects of roguery which involve killing things, yet not trade out on the aspects of a rogue. If anything, a fighting rogue of this sort should have MORE sneak attack progression at the expense of progression in other things, either in the form of extra sneak attack damage, or special effects of a sort like the assassin's death attack, not an even more hampered sneak attack progression.
Y'know, I like the idea of adding something special onto the sneak attack damage to give the class more flavor. Any ideas on what it should be? And what should the Rogue give up? I'm thinking maybe losing 1 special rogue feat and having the other special feats being delayed a level or two, in exchange for something similar to the Assasin's death attack. Perhaps we could do something along the lines of the barbarian's progressively better rages? (like at 8th level get a paralysis effect on sneak attack? This would keep those pesky multiclassers from getting the benefit of the better sneaks without the downsides).
The Martial Rogue:
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 4+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Special Ability
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14 Improved Sneak Attack (d10)
15 Sneak attack +8d10
16 Special Ability
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18 Improved Sneak Attack (d12)
19 Sneak attack +10d12
20 Special Ability
My humble suggestions. Reduce Skills to 4+Int, keep same skill list. Delay Special abilities until level 12 and the martial rogue only gains 3 of them, once every 4 levels. Delay Evasion until 4th level. Increase sneak attack die by 1 at 10th level and every 4 levels afterwards.
At 10th level the martial rogue (needs a better name too) does 5 more points on an average sneak attack then a rogue. At 14th it is 14 more damage, and at 18th it is 27 more damage. At level 19+ it is 30 more damage, or on average 3 more points per sneak die. Its a high level only ability, rogues will have lower BAB, more special abilities, and of course, uncanny dodge (which negates a martial rogue beating a rogue unless it is 4 levels higher than the rogue). Naturally, the rogue will have many more skills maxed. I would revise the special ability list of the martial rogue a little, taking off Skill Mastery adding something like Hamstring perhaps.
Technik
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 4+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Special Ability
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14 Improved Sneak Attack (d10)
15 Sneak attack +8d10
16 Special Ability
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18 Improved Sneak Attack (d12)
19 Sneak attack +10d12
20 Special Ability
My humble suggestions. Reduce Skills to 4+Int, keep same skill list. Delay Special abilities until level 12 and the martial rogue only gains 3 of them, once every 4 levels. Delay Evasion until 4th level. Increase sneak attack die by 1 at 10th level and every 4 levels afterwards.
At 10th level the martial rogue (needs a better name too) does 5 more points on an average sneak attack then a rogue. At 14th it is 14 more damage, and at 18th it is 27 more damage. At level 19+ it is 30 more damage, or on average 3 more points per sneak die. Its a high level only ability, rogues will have lower BAB, more special abilities, and of course, uncanny dodge (which negates a martial rogue beating a rogue unless it is 4 levels higher than the rogue). Naturally, the rogue will have many more skills maxed. I would revise the special ability list of the martial rogue a little, taking off Skill Mastery adding something like Hamstring perhaps.
Technik
0.0
Good job with it. I still wanna go for 6 sp/lvl though. Any less and it really stops being a Rogue. I'll try to tone it down a bit for my own needs. Nice job though.
EDIT: here's my try:
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 6+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Special Ability
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14
15 Sneak attack +8d8
16 Special Ability, Improved sneak attack (d10)
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18
19 Sneak attack +10d10
20 Special Ability
Gave it 6 sp/lvl, but no d12 sneak attack, and improved sneak d10 much later. Whadya think? Good idea on increasing the sneak attack damage by the way.
Good job with it. I still wanna go for 6 sp/lvl though. Any less and it really stops being a Rogue. I'll try to tone it down a bit for my own needs. Nice job though.
EDIT: here's my try:
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 6+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Special Ability
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14
15 Sneak attack +8d8
16 Special Ability, Improved sneak attack (d10)
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18
19 Sneak attack +10d10
20 Special Ability
Gave it 6 sp/lvl, but no d12 sneak attack, and improved sneak d10 much later. Whadya think? Good idea on increasing the sneak attack damage by the way.
Last edited:
The Martial Rogue:
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 6+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Improved Evasion
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14 Improved Sneak Attack (d10)
15 Sneak attack +8d10
16
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18 Improved Sneak Attack (d12)
19 Sneak attack +10d12
20
mmmkay, here's may second crack at it. compared to nomal rog it gets the following:
Fighter BAB, Weapon Finesse, better sneak attacks
what it loses:
uncanny dodge, evasion and improved evasion at higher level (assuming you take imp evasion at the first opportunity), only 1 special ability, -2 sp/lvl
How's this?
Alignment: any
HD: d6
Skills: same as Rogue, except sp/lvl is 6+int mod
BAB: as fighter
Saves: as Rogue
Proficiencies: as Rogue
1 Sneak attack +1d6, Weapon Finesse
2 Trap Finding
3 Sneak attack +2d6
4 Evasion
5 Sneak attack +3d6
6
7 Sneak attack +4d6
8
9 Sneak attack +5d6
10 Improved Sneak Attack (d8)
11 Sneak attack +6d8
12 Improved Evasion
13 Sneak attack +7d8
14 Improved Sneak Attack (d10)
15 Sneak attack +8d10
16
17 Sneak attack +9d10
18 Improved Sneak Attack (d12)
19 Sneak attack +10d12
20
mmmkay, here's may second crack at it. compared to nomal rog it gets the following:
Fighter BAB, Weapon Finesse, better sneak attacks
what it loses:
uncanny dodge, evasion and improved evasion at higher level (assuming you take imp evasion at the first opportunity), only 1 special ability, -2 sp/lvl
How's this?
