D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

[Minigiant]

Did he happen to say why? I've love to hear his reasoning...

Every elf is a wizard. Even the babies.

 

[AlViking]

I've always considered DM the same as Party Host. When you throw a party, you have added responsibilities your guests do not: menu, venue, decorations, entertainment, etc. That gives you tremendous power to chose things you will like, but you must keep in mind the preferences of your guests as well. Making sure the menu has foods that can support your guests dietary restrictions (if any, like Vegan, Kosher, or Gluten-free). Making sure the music isn't something people with dislike (IE, no country, no hardcore rap, no throat-yodeling). I could just throw the party I want to be at and if my guests enjoy it cool and if they don't, there is the door, but I probably won't have many repeat guests if my party is essentially for me (and you can come too).

So if you really want caviar does the host have to provide it? Because that's what you're saying when you say the DM has to allow any species request.

 

[AlViking]

The main benefit of being a tortle is being a turtle guy. like. It doesn't even matter what the stats are. "Being a turtle guy" is the niche.

Playing a dwarf in armor does not satisfactorily fill the 'being a turtle' goal


I gotta be honest, if you're worried about people picking races for mechanical benefits? Ban humans. Just, go and ban humans. They're the overpowered race. They're the munchkin's favourite. They're the powergaming race. Humans. Not any of the other races.

There's a reason "Pick human or sometimes halfling" is how you powergamed in 5E. You're not picking tabaxi, centaurs, genasi, harengon, plasmoids, leonins, shifters, loxodons or grungs if you're wanting a mechanical benefit. Especially grungs. You're only picking bugbear if you want that one silly build that lets them have a lot of range, and chances are you're not doing that

You pick tabaxi because you want to be a cat person. You pick centaur because you want to be a centaur. Genasi? Elemental people. Plasmoids? Slime girl. So on and so forth


Actual 5E powergamers know the real way to powergame is always to pick Human. You don't pick other races, you pick human. That's the strongest race in 5E

All of these other races don't even come up compared to the power of the level 1 feat.

So if you were playing BitD would you insist on playing a turtle guy? What if I really want to play a anthropomorphic piece of toast? My reason? Because it's toast man! At a certain point we're simply at an impasse. The DM doesn't allow tortles and a player will not consider any other option. As far as I can tell there's no real compromise here - neither side is willing to budge.

If that's the case then it's nothing for the player and the DM will find someone else to fill that seat.

 

[tetrasodium]

That's where "something like those" fits in..

For example, the half elf ranger is because the player wants to play a character who belongs to 2 cultures. But doesn't completely fit into each. So it has tangible connections to the cultures but prefers to stay outside of civilized society and preffers nature, where it feels that it is completely unjudged.

Where the DM could say "instead you could be a human but half Northern and half Imperial and get your training in the Southern jungles."

NO
That is not one person working with another person because that is literally how AI gets trained
You are placing a human GM in the role of what CGPGrey calls a teacher bot and expecting both sides to function as an ai like described.
You are so caught up in shifting all responsibility for collaboration onto the gm and constantly reminding people that players can choose to not play or leave a game if they want that you've completely ignored all of the many many examples and descriptions of what the process of a player adapting their character to fit a campaign/setting looks like.


I present you too with "how to create characters with real depth (not just a statblock)". Maybe think about the difference between builder bot teacher bot student bot and humans like a gm or player while going through

Spoiler: How to create character a with real depth(not just a statblock)

Most players don’t set out to create shallow characters. But when you're sitting at the table with a fresh character sheet, it’s easy to focus on stats, spells, and optimisation while overlooking what makes a character truly memorable… depth!

Whether you're a new player or a seasoned veteran, this guide will walk you through how to breathe life into your character. Below you’ll discover tools, prompts, and ideas that go far beyond choosing a race and class.

Step 1: Define the Core Concept (But Don’t Get Stuck There)​

Start with a broad idea. This could be as simple as:

• "A dwarven monk who used to be a pit-fighter."
• "An elven bard who gave up immortality for love."

Let this be a launch pad, not a cage. Your concept should invite questions, not limit possibilities. Ask yourself: Why does this character live the way they do? What happened before page 1 of their story?

Step 2: Establish the Character’s Internal Conflict​

Great characters are torn between opposing forces. Use these prompts to build their contradictions:

• What do they want vs. what do they need?
• What is their greatest fear?
• What is something they believe that might not be true?
• Who do they pretend to be?

This is your character’s emotional engine. It’s what creates drama, fuels development, and makes their arc satisfying.

Step 3: Create a Living Backstory​

Too many players feel that their backstory has to be this massive document that chronicles what they like for breakfast and how they tie their shoes. Backstories are not novels. Instead, write key turning points in your character’s journey:

• A tragedy they never recovered from.
• A mentor or rival who shaped them.
• A vow they’ve made and might one day break.

A good backstory isn’t just history; it’s ammunition for the Dungeon Master and yourself to explore character-driven moments during play.

Step 4: Build Dynamic Goals​

Avoid static goals like "get rich" or "kill the villain." Instead, ask:

• What is their current goal?
• What will change that goal later?
• What will make them question everything?

Dynamic goals mean the character isn’t locked into a single path. They change, just like real people. Too often, players can lose interest in their characters as they enter double-digit levels. This is often because the DM has covered off the resolution to their backstory, and by doing so has concluded that player-character’s story arc. But unlike a movie, a D&D Campaign works more like a television series. Imagine each session falling into a season. Every season of your campaign, the plot should shift, and so should your character’s goals. Of course, these need to make sense, so be sure to pay attention to everything that happens within the story. That way, you can allow your character to grow truly… Here are some examples:

1. Walter White (Breaking Bad)​

Initial Goal: Provide for his family after a terminal cancer diagnosis.
Later Goal: Build a drug empire and feed his own ego.
Final Arc: Protect what remains of his family and legacy… on his terms.

D&D Parallel: A character who starts out as a reluctant hero might become corrupted by power, or obsessed with status and control. Think of a lawful good cleric gradually drawn into morally grey politics.

2. Zuko (Avatar: The Last Airbender)​

Initial Goal: Capture the Avatar to restore his honour.
Mid-Series Shift: Question his father’s cruelty and his own identity.
Final Arc: Join the Avatar to fight for justice — and earn true honour.

D&D Parallel: A character driven by revenge or duty can later realise they were chasing the wrong thing. Their new goal might be redemption, atonement, or switching allegiances mid-campaign.

3. Jamie Lannister (Game of Thrones)​

Initial Goal: Maintain his reputation and family’s power.
Mid-Series Shift: Survive captivity and reckon with his shame.
Later Arc: Seek redemption and purpose outside of his family — then tragically regress.

D&D Parallel: Players can deepen their characters by letting them grow past old loyalties — even if they sometimes backslide or struggle with identity.

4. Buffy Summers (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)​

Initial Goal: Balance teen life with slaying monsters.
Seasonal Shifts: From accepting her calling, to losing loved ones, to confronting her own mortality and role as a leader.
Endgame: Redefine what it means to be a Slayer — for herself and others.

D&D Parallel: A PC might start as “just a fighter” but evolve into a reluctant leader, a spiritual seeker, or a reluctant god-slayer — shaped by the lives they touch and lose along the way.

5. BoJack Horseman (BoJack Horseman)​

Initial Goal: Reclaim fame and feel good about himself.
Series Evolution: Confront deep-seated trauma, addiction, and selfishness.
Endgame: Try to become better — even when it’s too late to undo the damage.

D&D Parallel: This kind of long-form transformation suits campaigns that explore character flaws, slow self-awareness, or the fallout of poor choices. Not every arc needs to end in triumph — but it should be earned.

Step 5: Add Specific, Memorable Flaws​

Your character’s flaw should be more than "I’m too loyal" or "I trust too easily."
Think personality defects, emotional scars, or compulsions:

• They always have to win.
• They lie when they're nervous.
• They can’t sleep alone.
• They’re terrified of losing control.

Flaws help you play a more human, relatable character—and give your party something real to interact with.

Step 6: Integrate Their Values & Beliefs​

This is where your character's moral compass lives. Even villains have values:

• What won’t they compromise on?
• What do they believe about the world?
• What would it take to make them betray that?

This creates a foundation for character-driven decisions in morally grey moments.

Step 7: Make Them React, Not Just Act​

During gameplay, let your character react to what happens emotionally:

• Are they furious about injustice?
• Do they freeze when things get personal?
• Do they crack jokes to hide fear?

Reacting in character creates depth on the fly

How to Create a D&D Character with Real Depth (Not Just a Stat Block) — Rolldark

Most players want their character to feel alive, but many fall into tropes or flat archetypes. This article would walk them through layered backstory creation, flaws and contradictions, and goals that evolve with the story.

rolldark.co.uk

I include that spoiler because it shows some examples of things two humans could discuss while working together without expectations to be functioning as an ai training system

 

[DinoInDisguise]

DM Always Wins.

I mean, I have a theory as to why.

Scarcity.

I bet the behavior is different if DMs are a dime a dozen, and players are hard to find. But, as a DM who runs games online, for random people, I have no incentive to compromise for a player unless I have a history with that player. In fact, I've never been asked to compromise at all, dozens and dozens of players just accept what I post. Each eager to play.

This leads me into situations where I do restrict character creation choices for flavor reasons. Allowing only a small number of races plus reskins of other races. And I just state up front the restrictions. And I fill the game easily.

For example, my last game I posted on r/LFG last spring, restricted races to one of 9. In 24 hours, I had 81 replies in my google form. I had fourteen willing players in under 60 minutes.

Do I have any incentive to loosen my restrictions when the game fills in minutes?

Right or wrong. I think this is why, in practice, DMs always win. And likely always will. They simply have no reason to compromise, when players are so readily available. And players who wish to play, have every reason to compromise.

Is this fair? Nah. But what is the DM's incentive here? There is none.

 

[SableWyvern]

DM Always Wins.

Everyone is capable of winning

The GM wins by running the games they want to run, the way they want to run them.

The player wins by playing the games they want to play, the way they want to play them.

If a player feels that every GM always wins and they never do, that suggests that the game they want to play is simply not something anyone else is interested in.

 

[Remathilis]

So if you really want caviar does the host have to provide it? Because that's what you're saying when you say the DM has to allow any species request.

No, but I wouldn't tell someone to leave if they brought it to the party...

 

[SableWyvern]

No, but I wouldn't tell someone to leave if they brought it to the party...

For the analogy to work, this person isn't just bringing caviar. They are also insisting that the host incorporate the caviar into all their dishes, and everyone attending has to eat some.

 

[Xenolith234]

I mean, I have a theory as to why.

Scarcity.

I bet the behavior is different if DMs are a dime a dozen, and players are hard to find. But, as a DM who runs games online, for random people, I have no incentive to compromise for a player unless I have a history with that player. In fact, I've never been asked to compromise at all, dozens and dozens of players just accept what I post. Each eager to play.

This leads me into situations where I do restrict character creation choices for flavor reasons. Allowing only a small number of races plus reskins of other races. And I just state up front the restrictions. And I fill the game easily.

For example, my last game I posted on r/LFG last spring, restricted races to one of 9. In 24 hours, I had 81 replies in my google form. I had fourteen willing players in under 60 minutes.

Do I have any incentive to loosen my restrictions when the game fills in minutes?

Right or wrong. I think this is why, in practice, DMs always win. And likely always will. They simply have no reason to compromise, when players are so readily available. And players who wish to play, have every reason to compromise.

Is this fair? Nah. But what is the DM's incentive here? There is none.

For every new DM created, more players will be created.

If they’re equal roles, then I can just do as lots of players do (not read the PHB, not read any background info or know the rules), show up, and the game will run itself, right?

They’re not equal because every DM has to have “equal” weight to the amount of players in their group. Their opinion does weigh heavier. They have responsibilities to “be” the game, the environment, the world, the NPCs, and have responsibility to their players. Players only have to be one thing - their PC.

 

[Remathilis]

Right or wrong. I think this is why, in practice, DMs always win. And likely always will. They simply have no reason to compromise, when players are so readily available. And players who wish to play, have every reason to compromise.

See, I never had that experience. Players tended to be in shorter supply. So much so that a good player (one who knows the rules and makes it consistently) is worth compromising with. I'm sure that if you had a pool of only 10 people, you'd be more willing to entertain people tortle preferences. But I guess if there is a surplus, there is no incentive to care.

This just shows we really need to work harder to onboard more DMs.