D&D 5E The "more complex" fighter: What are you looking for?

[DEFCON 1]

After all, this is EXACTLY what the 4E system is. A singular set of game mechanics... sometimes narrated as "magic"... and sometimes narrated as "mundane". And thus the power-level of both sides are ALSO exactly the same as the characters level up, because they are using the same exact game mechanics and are just changing the fluff. You don't need two separate systems to accomplish it. You just need the one. As 4E PROVED to us in spades. So just use it.

This is probably a great product for some enterprising DM's Guilder to write. Re-do the 5E spellcasting cantrip and slot system as a weapon-using maneuvers combat system. Keep the game mechanics exactly the same-- each warrior has two to four "at-will" maneuvers (IE cantrips) and a whole host of of other maneuvers that require energy to do-- energy that just happens to match up with the spell slot system (or if you wanted, the spell-point variant in the DMG). But every single "maneuver's" fluff is newly created and written out as a weapon style attack, or a inspiring shout, or a combat stance. Whatever the author wanted to make these game mechanics have a martial flair rather than a magical one. So for example...

At Will Maneuvers:
Lantern (Light)
Duck And Cover (Resistance)
Alchemical Acid Vial (Acid Splash)
Quarterstaff Master (Shilleleigh)
Arrow To The Knee (Ray of Frost)

1st level:
Bolstering Shout (Bless)
Bind Wounds (Cure Wounds)
Hustle (Expeditious Retreat)
Hunter's Mark (Hunter's Mark)
Improved Disguise Kit (Disguise Self)
Improved Parry (Shield)
Commanding Presence (Command)
Heroism (Heroism)

2nd level:
Spinal Shot (Hold Person)
Fast Dodge (Blur)
Improved Climber's Kit (Spider Climb)
Holmsian Investigator (Locate Object)
Interrogation (Zone of Truth)

So on and so forth. The maneuvers are rewritten with new "non-magical" fluff... but the actual game effects remain the same. Do this for all 9 levels and create a whole bunch of warrior classes that use different "maneuver" lists. And boom... you've got a martial equivalent to spellcasting.

 

[Imaro]

Totally forgot about scag(not owning it) and forgetting the barb was just bad form. But compared to the casting classes it seems short I mean wizard, 4element monk,shadow sorcerer,cleric,EK,AT,Druid,totem barb,warlocks,paladins,rangers and the bards it soon mounts up especially when you add the secret sauce(there respective sub classes).

Not disagreeing that there are more classes that use magic then those who don't...

I feel magic should be more restricted imo I mean anyone I mean anyone can learn to swing a sword at a decent level(I know I have done it) but magic well to me should take months of study just to master a cantrip and a life time to drop meteors. On the otherside why does a God lend his power to every Tom, dick n harry. I feel magic should be a rare gift. Alot of the 1/2 casters could of had a non magic sub-class with ease I know page count, can't please everyone etc applys.

But this has nothing to do with how many classes there are that use magic and everything to do with the rules of the campaign you want to run. For a group of adventurers, which are already exceptional... the number of casters within their group says nothing about whether magic itself is rare or not in the world.

You want magic to take years and years of study to learn? Then require those players who chose magic classes to create PC's above a certain age and disallow magical classes as multi-class options... but no I don't think this should be default.

As to why a god lends his power to every Tom, dick n harry... in your campaign rule that clerics (and possibly paladins) can have their powers stripped if they displease their gods or break their tenets... and those who multi-class into cleric or paladin must perform a quest or service to show their devotion to said god. But again this is too specific to be the default for 5e.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Shardstone]

The idea of making fighters having spellmechanics but with martial abilities is silly. The fighter is fine as it is now--it is one of my favorite classes. The battle maneuver system is genius, seamless, and fun to play with. If you want it more complex, play with their other mechanics, like Action Surge, instead of trying to slap spellcasting on them to make martial-wuxia-anime characters.

 

[Azurewraith]

Not disagreeing that there are more classes that use magic then those who don't...



But this has nothing to do with how many classes there are that use magic and everything to do with the rules of the campaign you want to run. For a group of adventurers, which are already exceptional... the number of casters within their group says nothing about whether magic itself is rare or not in the world.

You want magic to take years and years of study to learn? Then require those players who chose magic classes to create PC's above a certain age and disallow magical classes as multi-class options... but no I don't think this should be default.

As to why a god lends his power to every Tom, dick n harry... in your campaign rule that clerics (and possibly paladins) can have their powers stripped if they displease their gods or break their tenets... and those who multi-class into cleric or paladin must perform a quest or service to show their devotion to said god. But again this is too specific to be the default for 5e.

Your right I'm just getting lazy as my time to plan out a world becoming less and less I'm trying to force the default to be what I want to save me time. Could be time to start running some of those module things people keep talking about.

 

[Dausuul]

This is 5es greatest problem surprised I didn't think of it in the what 5e got wrong thread. To much magic way to much magic! I mean martials really have been made the minority here there's what 2fighter subclasses with no spells 2rogues 1monk did I miss any?

Yes, you forgot barbarians. No spellcasting whatsoever.

This whole business about everyone being a caster in 5E is way overblown. Let's go through the classes and see how their spellcasting lines up in 3.5E versus 5E:

• Barbarian: 3E noncaster, 5E noncaster.
• Bard: 3E two-thirds caster, 5E full caster.
• Cleric: 3E full caster, 5E full caster.
• Druid: 3E full caster, 5E full caster.
• Fighter: 3E noncaster, 5E noncaster with a one-third caster subclass (replacing a 3.5E prestige class).
• Monk: 3E noncaster, 5E noncaster with a variant caster subclass.
• Paladin: 3E one-third caster, 5E half caster.
• Ranger: 3E one-third caster, 5E half caster.
• Rogue: 3E noncaster, 5E noncaster with a one-third caster subclass (replacing a 3.5E prestige class).
• Sorcerer: 3E full caster, 5E full caster.
• Warlock: 3E variant caster, 5E variant caster.
• Wizard: 3E full caster, 5E full caster.

If a class was noncasting in 3E, the "standard build" of that class in 5E is also noncasting. And Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are nothing but prestige classes from 3.5E folded into the main class. 5E did increase the level of spells available to all of 3.5E's partial caster classes (paladin and ranger went from one-third to one-half, and bard went from two-thirds to full), but it did not force spells on any class that didn't already have them.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The idea of making fighters having spellmechanics but with martial abilities is silly. The fighter is fine as it is now--it is one of my favorite classes. The battle maneuver system is genius, seamless, and fun to play with. If you want it more complex, play with their other mechanics, like Action Surge, instead of trying to slap spellcasting on them to make martial-wuxia-anime characters.

So because you like it, everything fine?

Okay then.

 

[TwoSix]

The idea of making fighters having spellmechanics but with martial abilities is silly. The fighter is fine as it is now--it is one of my favorite classes. The battle maneuver system is genius, seamless, and fun to play with. If you want it more complex, play with their other mechanics, like Action Surge, instead of trying to slap spellcasting on them to make martial-wuxia-anime characters.

D&D needs more martial-wuxia-anime, not less.

 

[Salamandyr]

D&D needs more martial-wuxia-anime, not less.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but really, the difference between "gritty hardcore" and "wild wuxia action" is more a difference in description than mechanics.

 

[Shardstone]

So because you like it, everything fine?

Okay then.

I wonder if you can quote me say that, or if arguing against a strawman is what you're really interested in.