The Myth of the Bo9S's Popularity

[Cadfan]

For me to make a standing high jump of 10' in D&D, I would need to beat a jump DC of 80.

With a running start, it would be a jump DC of 40. There are feats that let you count as if running, so we'll use this DC.

That's doable without magic, IF you invest as follows (and assuming you consider magical strength enhancement to be magical assistance in jumping):

12 ranks in Jump
+2 bonus from tumble synergy
+4 from Run feat
+10 from Leaping Dragon Stance, from Tome of Battle
+2 from Blade Meditation: Tiger Claw, from Tome of Battle
+5 strength bonus
+2 from acrobatic feat
+3 from skill focus: jump

Can somebody get that at a lower level than 9?

If you take out the ridiculously suboptimal feat selections (acrobatic? skill focus jump? this character spent 4 feats on jumping), chances are no one is accomplishing this below level 15 in regular D&D, EVEN IF they use the MOST "wuxia" like character options from the most wuxia like book.

Does anyone have any reason to think this is changing? Or is this the same hysteria that attached itself to Tome of Battle?

 

[Fenes]

(Isn't there an Oriental Adventures Prestige Class that gives +30 to jump/tumble/balance checks? Blade Dancer, I think.)

 

[Seule]

Can somebody get that at a lower level than 9?

Take a level of Barbarian for 10' increase to speed (+4 to jump) and Reckless Rage to bump Strength by another 6, or another +3.

--Seule

 

[KarinsDad]

For me to make a standing high jump of 10' in D&D, I would need to beat a jump DC of 80.

With a running start, it would be a jump DC of 40. There are feats that let you count as if running, so we'll use this DC.
...

If you take out the ridiculously suboptimal feat selections (acrobatic? skill focus jump? this character spent 4 feats on jumping), chances are no one is accomplishing this below level 15 in regular D&D, EVEN IF they use the MOST "wuxia" like character options from the most wuxia like book.

I don't think anyone has a problem with a PC designed to jump like this taking a lot of skills and feats to do so, and accomplishing this by level 15.

The problem we are discussing is to gain one non-magical Talent or Feat that allows a PC to jump straight up Wuxia style 10 feet. A single Talent or Feat that gives a DC 80 skill check. Seeing some of the abilities in Bo9S and PHBII, it makes one wonder. For example, Burning Blade. What exactly is martial and non-magical about setting your sword on fire? It's not a martial power, it's the DND equivalent of a superpower. Ditto for many of the powers. Crusader's Strike has nothing to do with a martial power. Probably more than a third of the abilities in Bo9S sound like superpowers as opposed to super martial powers.

Bo9S is pure fantasy Wuxia stuff, not DND martial stuff.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

It's yet D&D fantasy, just inspired of another, less common source.

About time D&D don't rehash the same old tired sources.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's yet D&D fantasy, just inspired of another, less common source.

About time D&D don't rehash the same old tired sources.

If it is tired for you, change it for your game.

Don't force the rest of the world to correspond to your idea of old and tired.

 

[Scribble]

If it is tired for you, change it for your game.

Don't force the rest of the world to correspond to your idea of old and tired.

Same can be said in the reverse, however.

If you prefer the old way ignore the new stuff, don't force the rest of us to miss out on new ideas.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If it is tired for you, change it for your game.

Don't force the rest of the world to correspond to your idea of old and tired.

Or the best idea, make a system that can comfort both!

Sure, you might have to restrict some options some times (no burning sword power for you, Mr. Fighter. Take the +100 once per encounter power instead!)

 

[KarinsDad]

Same can be said in the reverse, however.

If you prefer the old way ignore the new stuff, don't force the rest of us to miss out on new ideas.

Actually, there is a difference.

Some of us might actually want to have the new game mechanics ideas which speed up the game without the new game change fighters into WoW/Wuxia superheroes ideas. Not saying that WotC is doing this, but that does appear to be the trend.

The majority of people who play DND have Fighter types with few "superpowers" and magical abilities unless they multiclass. Making it the status quo changes it from DND to something else. Sure, have it as an option for those who like that stuff, but not as core.

Btw, many of the new game mechanics ideas are great from what I have heard. Getting rid of Prestige Classes. Great. I hated them from day one. Giving each PC a new ability at every level. Great.

I just do not want to play DND Four Color Superheroes and that is what giving martial PCs magical sounding powers leans towards. That really is not DND.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The majority of people who play DND have Fighter types with few "superpowers" and magical abilities unless they multiclass. Making it the status quo changes it from DND to something else. Sure, have it as an option for those who like that stuff, but not as core.

Except that this is not true. High-level fighters in every edition certainly have superpowers; they can jump off cliffs, wrestle giants, and wade through entire armies.* It's just that right now, [EDIT: some of] those come from their stuff. Making the powers independent of magic items doesn't really change the game at all; in fact, if you like, you can just say that the powers *do* come from the hero's legendary magic sword and cloak and have done with.

*One of the reasons I mentioned Hero is that it was the first film I saw that actually created a plausible visual depiction of two people enduring hundreds of attacks and tearing through hundreds of ordinary (1st-level) warriors.