D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I like that and even prefer it. It's a better option then multiclassing, IMO.

No no, I love it when game mechanics naturally support the desired fiction. I just don't think this narrative slant, of all the DnD heroes being tempted by promise of such quick and easy power, is intentional from WotC's part.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I never understood why people hate multiclassing so much.

You're just using the toolbox the game gives you to make the character you want -- especially in a game that reticently does not want to give you certain character types out of the box or make them good or fun to play.

 

[Remathilis]

Warlocks: Breaking multi-classing since 2014.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Warlocks: Breaking multi-classing since 2014.

Not really.

Only if you read the multiclass rules wrong (which most people did, me included).
So just make it clear that there are spell casting spells slots and pact magic spell slots. Or warlock spell slots and spell slots. They can be used to cross cast but not cross expanded for class abilities.

 

[Stalker0]

I never understood why people hate multiclassing so much.

It comes down to this:

The first few levels of a class tend to be very "good", as that establishes the character and the class. Multiclassing allows a character to get these early levels (and the juicy abilities they bestow) multiple times. So multiclassing tends to favor optimizers.

Because of multiclassing's mere existence, it also puts a constraint on what can be offered to a 1st-2nd level class, as you add "too much" and its makes multi-classing even stronger.

So it puts a design constraint on the game, which some people do not like.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It comes down to this:

The first few levels of a class tend to be very "good", as that establishes the character and the class. Multiclassing allows a character to get these early levels (and the juicy abilities they bestow) multiple times. So multiclassing tends to favor optimizers.

Because of multiclassing's mere existence, it also puts a constraint on what can be offered to a 1st-2nd level class, as you add "too much" and its makes multi-classing even stronger.

So it puts a design constraint on the game, which some people do not like.

I disagree. Even though the first 2 levels are very good, they need to be that strong to even be considered for multiclassing.

A fighter 2/wizard X will be a perfectly fine fighter mage (close to ADnD power), good with a sword, heavily armored, but always a spell level behind, which is a very big cost.
Also the fighter mage needs some way to get extra attack or at least extra damage for the single attack. Bladesinger cantrips were the solution. Hopefully they are included.
Being able to keep up haste or one of the higher level transformation spells is a different one.

 

[Stalker0]

I disagree. Even though the first 2 levels are very good, they need to be that strong to even be considered for multiclassing.

Historically the "abuses" with multiclassing were more around martials, as you pointed out losing higher level spells is a major cost that is hard to make up for. Though 5e does it its special builds liek teh sorlock and coffeelock that have a particularly good synergy with warlock pact magic.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Historically the "abuses" with multiclassing were more around martials, as you pointed out losing higher level spells is a major cost that is hard to make up for. Though 5e does it its special builds liek teh sorlock and coffeelock that have a particularly good synergy with warlock pact magic.

Only if you allow using pact magic slots for sorcerer abilities.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It comes down to this:

The first few levels of a class tend to be very "good", as that establishes the character and the class. Multiclassing allows a character to get these early levels (and the juicy abilities they bestow) multiple times. So multiclassing tends to favor optimizers.

Because of multiclassing's mere existence, it also puts a constraint on what can be offered to a 1st-2nd level class, as you add "too much" and its makes multi-classing even stronger.

So it puts a design constraint on the game, which some people do not like.

Then the problem is in the designers constraining themselves rather than accepting and embracing it.

 

[Stalker0]

Then the problem is in the designers constraining themselves rather than accepting and embracing it.

If you want to embrace that multiclass characters are mechanically superior to single classed ones, sure you could go that route in a game system. WOTC has chosen to try and not do that, which requires restraints in your design. You can't have it both ways.