The Old Republic

Opinion question here.

Was the Old Republic really a Republic? Or do you think it would be more accurate to describe the government as a loose Confederation?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

a republic bordering on confederation because it was getting to big. In a confederation the central gov't probably woudln't have as much say
 

That is what I mean. The "Senators" of the Old Republic have much more power in their territories than a true Senator does. They appear to operate more like Governors with their power and control.

Also the central government seems to have little if any power at all. In fact the central governments power appears to be limited to control through "terror" and manipulation through the Jedi.
 

DocMoriartty said:
That is what I mean. The "Senators" of the Old Republic have much more power in their territories than a true Senator does. They appear to operate more like Governors with their power and control.

Also the central government seems to have little if any power at all. In fact the central governments power appears to be limited to control through "terror" and manipulation through the Jedi.
I'm not sure this is right.

In TPM, Padma Amidala was the (elected) "Queen" of Naboo and Palpatine was the Senator from Naboo. Palpatine clearly deferred to Amidala (while subtly manipulating her, of course) and Amidala was given a right to speak in the Senate despite not being a Senator at that stage.

In AotC, the then Senator Amidala travels to Naboo and reports to the new Queen. As with Palpatine before her, she deferred to the Naboo head of state.

I didn't actually see the Queen of Naboo ever give a direct order to a Senator, so I can't say how the authority chain works.

It might be like the current US congress where a state governor has no power over a state's senator but a governor is deserving of a senator's respect and consultation.

Or it might be like the old US system where state legislatures appointed the senators and thus, while governors had no formal authority over a senator, a governor who's party controlled the state legislature was not someone a senator would readily say no to.

Or it might be like the current United Nations, with the Ambassadors to the UN holding office at the pleasure of their governments and being subject to their direction.

The Republic seems to have been a very loose confederation/federation relying as much on persuasion, diplomacy and a shared common interest in stability as in the ability of the Jedi to go in and kick butt. In fact, the information gathering and diplomatic skills of the Jedi may have been more important to the stability of the Old Republic during its thousand year life than the Jedi's fighting skills.
 
Last edited:

You also have to consider that at the time of Eps 1 and 2 you are looking at a government that has become huge, cumbersome, corrupt and on the verge of collapse. Civil war is on the horizon (arrived by Ep 2), the Trade Federation willing to breach the peace because it knows that the senate is no longer effective.

All this does not mean that this has been the norm in the past, and given the lengthy peace that the Republic has experienced, one could certainly assume government used to be far more effective.

One could guess that Senators are elected, given that at the simplest level, a Republic is simply a state with an elected legislature.

Furthermore, one has to consider Governer Tarkin's comments in Ep 4 -

Q: "How will the Emperor retain control without the support of the Senate?"

Tarkin: "Regional Governers [eg, the same role filled by the Queen of Naboo] now have complete control."


IOW, previous to that point, Governers were answerable to the Senate (although not necessarily individual Senators).
 

SableWyvern said:
You also have to consider that at the time of Eps 1 and 2 you are looking at a government that has become huge, cumbersome, corrupt and on the verge of collapse. Civil war is on the horizon (arrived by Ep 2), the Trade Federation willing to breach the peace because it knows that the senate is no longer effective.

All this does not mean that this has been the norm in the past, and given the lengthy peace that the Republic has experienced, one could certainly assume government used to be far more effective.

One could guess that Senators are elected, given that at the simplest level, a Republic is simply a state with an elected legislature.

Furthermore, one has to consider Governer Tarkin's comments in Ep 4 -

Q: "How will the Emperor retain control without the support of the Senate?"

Tarkin: "Regional Governers [eg, the same role filled by the Queen of Naboo] now have complete control."


IOW, previous to that point, Governers were answerable to the Senate (although not necessarily individual Senators).



That's certainly plausible.

However, I always thought the "regional governors" in Tarkin's comment meant "regions of the galaxy" rather than planets. I had this image of the Empire being divided up into regions governed by governors who had a large garrison and fleet of star destroyers based at some central location within the region and patrolling to put down rebellions and instil fear.

It's mostly just an impression, but I think that a lot of planetary government was still nominally local under the Empire. Lando's Bespin mines seemed to be like that, as did Tattoinne (apparently run by the Hutts). Thus, if Naboo was still around at the time of ANH, I imagine there would still be a Queen at Thead, though the Imperials would have the right to come in and investigate or take over at any time and she would be ultimately responsible to the regional governor who would have authority over a number of systems and would control all imperial troops and bureaucrats in the region. I suspect that Naboo's system would "evolve" (i.e. be pushed by imperial influence) away from an elected monarchy...

I also suspect that towards the end the Senate, which the Emperor would have retained to maintain his legitimacy (perhaps even his coronation as Emperor was justified as a "temporary measure until the current crisis is dealt with"), was a way of the Emperor communicating his desires to the planets (rather than its original purpose, which was more or less the other way around). Senators would hear speeches and announcements from the Emperor and his servants and communicate back home as to how to stay in the Empire's good graces...

Also, I suspect the Emperor would have originally controlled the planets by bribing, corrupting, blackmailing or dominating their Senators. This would have repeated the subtle way in which Palpatine himself operated to undermine his homeland when he was the Senator from Naboo in TPM. Also, it has to be acknowledged that, Sith Lord or not, Palpatine appears to have been a genuinely charismatic and persuasive figure – one suspects his Sith master selected and trained him for just such an “insidious” role, hence “Darth Sideous” perhaps? Many disilusioned idealists (like Anakin) would have followed him willingly.

I’ve always speculated about how the Sith Lords planned this. I tend to see it as a millennium long campaign of the Sith hiding, slowly pushing forward the corruption of the Republic, sabotaging attempts at reform and subtly undermining the Jedi – all while carrying on their repeated ritual of the apprentice murdering his master when he had learned all he could. As the plan comes to fruition, I imagine the penultimate Sith master selecting an ambitious, charismatic young Palpatine, focussing his training on all the more insidious aspects of the Sith art (versions of the “Jedi mind trick”, clairvoyance, “charm person” and “suggestion” like powers, etc) as well as a perfected means of masking mastery of the Force from nearby Jedi. Then the master subtly places Palpatine on Naboo and sets him up for a promising political career. At some point, Palpatine calmly and methodically murders his master.

One tantalising possibility is that the Sith were always hiding on idyllic Naboo…
 
Last edited:


The other reason I consider the Old Republic to actually be a Confederation is due to the central government not having any sort of military beyond the Jedi who operate as a combo Secret Service, CIA, and FBI.

All mililtary seems to exist at a National Guard level with the central government having no ability to take control of that national guard.
 

SableWyvern said:
Furthermore, one has to consider Governer Tarkin's comments in Ep 4 -

Q: "How will the Emperor retain control without the support of the Senate?"

Tarkin: "Regional Governers [eg, the same role filled by the Queen of Naboo] now have complete control."


IOW, previous to that point, Governers were answerable to the Senate (although not necessarily individual Senators).

I think he actually said the Regional Governors would have _Direct_ control, ie he was referring to the Sector Moffs, part of the Imperial bureaucracy, taking direct control of the member worlds. This goes against the view that Senators did not have governmental powers, but it may be that the Senate acted as the bridge between Republican/Imperial and Planetary governments, and the removal of the Senate removes that bridge, requiring direct control.
 

Hmm, yes. I concede that my quote was incorrect - by one small word that could have larger implications.

Although I'm not sure if Moff = Governer. I do know Governor Tarkin was a Grand Moff, though.
 

Remove ads

Top